SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Technology Stocks : The *NEW* Frank Coluccio Technology Forum

 Public ReplyPrvt ReplyMark as Last ReadFilePrevious 10Next 10PreviousNext  
To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2129)2/25/2001 2:23:07 AM
From: Frank A. Coluccio  Read Replies (3) of 46821
 
Hi Ray,

"The proximate cause is not generating capacity, but rather transmission capacity."

Are you referring to high tension lines over longer distances, or short haul feeder networks that bottleneck and tend to become overloaded in the summer months? How did you come to this conclusion? Then again, I can see how the local feeder problem is solved if each building is self-sufficient. Good point, if that's what you meant.

This fact should really make SPs think twice about NYC locations unless they have a bomb-proof plan for alternate power generation, because a brown out is a real pisser for a data center.

I almost stated that any data center of any importance has generation capability on site. But during the recent bubble some johnny-come-lately landlords, accompanied by amateur facility managers that I'm aware of looking to fetch a fast buck on the dot con craze, have actually slapped together racks and power distribution units in refurbished warehouses and sold them to the dotcoms as colocation spaces. And some of these were sold as multiple use areas, and actually provisioned without backup power from the getgo. You get what you pay for?

So I'll rephrase it. All reputable and professionally run data centers of any importance have generation capabilities on site.

"I'm curious if there are extant plans for the local generation of power in the boroughs that can ameliorate this possibility? Seems to be the perfect location to consider fuel cells as an alternate high nines source, as long as the gas is available. Have you seen any developments along these lines ...[?]"

Mostly hospitals and governmental agencies, and a few showcase buildings professing to be either "green" buildings, or state of the art. One such building is the Conde Nast Building in the heart of Times Square, which has installed two 200 KW fuel cell rigs from IFC (ex-ONSI) for building power and perimeter heating.

The company who provided these fuel cells, International Fuel Cells [a division of United Technologies], is the same company that was once called ONSI, which was mentioned in the url you posted concerning the First National Bank of Omaha. The examples I've cited here can be viewed at:

internationalfuelcells.com

Other than the Conde Nast building, there have been several other fuel cell wins in the area recently that I am aware of, but, as I stated above, these were primarily for hospitals and governmental agencies. None others that I am aware of were for commercial enterprise undertakings, and probably for some familiar reasons that most here can relate to:

Building Fuel Cell technology is viewed by most commercial enterprise Facilities Managers in much the same way that enterprise IT managers regard desktop VoIP at this time: "Yes, it's going to be big time some day, but please don't ask me to take any arrows getting it there."

FUD, some real concerns about the availability and future [and fluctuating] prices for natural gas, and just as importantly, inertia, are all working against it at the present moment.

Inertia, in particular, stemming from established industry- and trade- practices which have been boiler-plated to death by now, but which, at the same time, make the MEPs'* and enterprise Facilities Managers' jobs and relationships both predictable and hassle free.

* MEP = mechanical, environmental, and electric power professional engineers

There are a lot of vested interests here, as in any industry, tending to keep things just the way they are, shortage or no shortage. Besides, if there is a power outage there are always the generators in place that these folks have designed into the system, just the way they always have. And isn't this the very reason why they have been designing generator backups for the past umpteen years in the first place? [g]

Aside from the obvious, there are several other matters relating to cost-benefit analyses that might yield some good discussion in case you are interested in pursuing this topic. One such area has to do with the price of a free lunch vis a vis the implications of using the power company as the backup - as opposed to the primary - source of power for a building or campus.

----

I initially hesitated answering your post in this regard, because I had a file that I wanted to review first and share with the thread. It was a detailed account describing the implementation of a fuel cell system at a nearby hospital, but I think I've trashed it already. If I come across it I'll post it.

By the way, these power cell papers really get into the nines idiom, don't they? Some of the most horrific stories I've ever heard had to do with "backup" generators and associated switchgear provisions that didn't work just at the moment in time when they were most needed.

IMO, the high nines (six nines, they say) discussions are usually full of crap, anyway, just like discussions concerning the crafting of a perfect SLA. A single mishap lasting just a couple of hours can propel the justification formula for a six nines objective into the next millennium. At that point, the six nines relevance becomes a matter of faith in the hereafter, because no one will live long enough to validate it.

FAC
Report TOU ViolationShare This Post
 Public ReplyPrvt ReplyMark as Last ReadFilePrevious 10Next 10PreviousNext