carmelbeach,
very glad to see you finally posted the entire post. Very funny how you act like I don't document fairly, but then you only provide the smallest sample of what is a very long post.
Worst thing is, you cut the piece out to just try to disprove something that I had written where I say that I am not a paid promoter. You seem to think that it was evidence that I was lying, or something. Of course, I don't think you were being honest or you would have posted the entire post at the time. Of course you did not do that, because within the body of the post I explain precisely what I meant when I called myself a "promoter". Here is your "evidence".
"And make no mistake about it...all conversations about any given stock have some degree of promotion or angst inherent in it. If I have a thread regarding the stock, then i'm making a statement pro or con in regards to the stock."
So there you have it. A post from over 3 years ago, when I was just a newbie to the OTC market, and I already can keenly see that any kind of post is a promotion of sorts.
For example, it's one of your favorite pastimes to post the time and sales each day for LBWR. And that is certainly a type of promotion. Funniest thing is that to the passerby, it may appear to be somewhat of a pump, since you post it everyday like LBWR is one of you top stocks on your watchlist. That would probably be significant to many, because most people don't consistently post time and sales at all, much less on stocks they do not like. Certainly to the passerby your posts of the time and sales must appear to be an invitation to buy, and therefore a promotion. Surely that is what most uneducated to your primary promotion must think.
Here are just a few links to your promotional activities to make you happy.
LBWR 5/22/09 TRADES
ragingbull.quote.com
LBWR 5/20/09 TRADES
ragingbull.quote.com
LBWR 5/19/09 TRADE
ragingbull.quote.com
Now, those of us that actually know your motive, know that the reason you are posting the time and sales are not to promote the idea that the stock should be purchased, but just the opposite. You are promoting the idea that LBWR is illiquid, and that the price per shares is falling. You do this promotion in order to get people not to buy LBWR, and perhaps even to sell in frustration.
That is your promotion. That is your cause. That is your agenda. That is what you advertise. That is your pump. That is what you advocate. That is what you boost. That is what you pimp. That is the idea that you abet and hype with every stroke of the key pad. And that is not in dispute.
You have your own opinion, and certainly sticking to it every single day is nothing short of a full out stock promotion. Plain and simple.
NOW maybe your "promotion of choice" is not a positive "stock promotion", BUT just the same IT IS a negative "stock promotion", and you cannot deny that.
Alright, so now back to my "flame wars" post.
So funny you say that I get upset when my posts are displayed. Not true. I get upset when my posts are taken out of context, or my meanings twisted - which is what you did.
Actaully, I like that post very much. It makes a very good detail of the "awakening" that I had as a result of investing and posting about such stocks as PLNI, RSHN, and VWKM. It clearly outlines what I still see as the biggest problem in the OTC market - mass dilutors, since it steals the equity from the market, and because we have no idea where the 100's of millions of dollars go.
Therefore, I am very proud of that post, and of myself, because I have remainded 100% true to what I wrote over 3 years ago. Don't you get it?
I guess you don't. Let me say more.
I checked and for the record, I own 41 different OTC stocks. Here is the run down.
- 2 of them that are not tradable at the moment - Bighub who never came back from a halt, and American Capital that is just shares from a spin-off that have never been traded.
- 1 of them is an OTCBB stock, the rest are either pink or grey
- LBWR I have held the longest, and I have the largest dollar amount invested in it of any other OTC stock that I hold (for the record, I own plenty of Big Board stocks, but I do not self invest those - I leave that to the "big boys". Oh, and for the record, I have SMOKED the "big boys" for the last 3 years. NO CONTEST! My OTC port kills my 401k year after year. That is in percentage gains, and dollar gains. Looks like I am going to stomp a hole in them again this year.)
Alright, so if you subtract out the 2 non trable stocks, and you subtract out LBWR then that leaves me with 38 other stocks that I would certainly like to see go up in value. Can you figure out the tickers to all the other 38 stocks that I currently own? Should be very easy, right? Like jmhollen I should be the moderator for at least 38 other threads, right? Let's check the record.
iHub Boards Moderated By creede
siliconinvestor.com
SI Boards Moderated By Creede
siliconinvestor.com
Hummmm. That is very interesting. 38 stocks owned other than LBWR, and yet he only moderates one stock specific thread - LBWR.
See, if you will care to admit it, you figure I only own one stock - LBWR. You figure that I moderate threads until I get rid of my shares, and then move on. If you are honest, then I think you will have to admit that is the judgment you have made.
Dead wrong. I have moderated many threads in my day, because just as I say in the "flame wars" post, I give them all a chance initially as long as the DD is sound on the front end. After that I may or may not moderate the thread. Just kinda depends upon if I stay bullish or not.
Case in point, I have moderated MYRA (my one OTCBB stock), and NNYR in the past. I still own a significant amounn shares in both companies, but I no longer moderate the thread for either. Why is that?
Because quite simply I am not very bullish on either one of them at the moment. MYRA needs a whole bunch of money in a very tough climate to ever get going, and NNYR needs AF's, and maybe even a whole new shell to come back to life. I don't think either one of them are "scams", and neither one have broken the cardinal sin with me (mass diluting), but still cannot get enough behind either one of them at the moment to be willing to put my name atop their threads, since I know in a way that is some kind of endorsement. Or call it "promotion" of you like.
Ok, so do you even realize what brought the "flame wars" post out of me?
It was when jmhollen and I parted ways when he refused to post or even acknowledge even one single negative about PLNI. He would even try to shut me up by banning me when I posted what I was upset about. I was upset with rrm as well to a degree, but at least he let me vent without telling me I was wrong - which is what jmhollen was doing.
Oh, and while we are on the subject, all you guys seem to think that I am the one that is deleting posts off of iHub - that is FALSE. I have given up on trying to delete posts at the Hub. There are so many adminstrators now that they take care of almost ALL the deletions. I used to do it years ago, but then it's just too frustrating when they get overturned. The only way to handle it now is with the TOU button if you feel so moved, and then let ADMIN decide. Rarely do any of the mods delete a post. What you are seeing is readers of the thread using the TOU button, and ADMIN doing the deleting. Only exception is when you see the green arrows saying it has been restored. I personally do not like to see those arrows, and thus will not remove a post unless it is an obvious personal attack, profanity, or spam.
But back to jmhollen. I do not like his bulls only style. That seems like something a paid promoter would do, and just cannot be the way to go if you want your opinion to be respected.
Another thing from the "flame wars" post I would like to address is the mention of FCDH. You do realize that is BKMP, right?
Let's just throw this in real quick as well. FCDH sold 300 billion shares before doing a 1 for 10,000 r/s last year.
300,000,000,000 * .001 = $300,000,000
You do realize that is $300 MILLION dollars that has gone God knows where, right?
You do realize that BKMP is still trading, and still diluting, right?
My point is that if you want to be angry, if you want to have a good cause, if you want to make difference, then why pick on LBWR that has not issued a 504 in over 3 years? Just does not make sense.
Oh, and for the record, I also do some negative stock promotion when i feel so moved.
siliconinvestor.com
siliconinvestor.com
Alright, so I saw the worst of the worst in BKMP. What did I do?
I put my DD on the thread for the record (and there it remains), and then I went on about my business. I did not make a life out of posting on the BKMP thread, even though I believe that stock is always going to be doomed to mass dilution and reverse splits. I said what I needed to say, and then I moved on. Anything else would be to just stand there and throw salt on their wounds each and every day. Their trail is going to be difficult enough without all that. In time they will learn the error of their ways. Then they will either change the way they invest or move out of the OTC market altogether. They do not need me there making it worse day in and day out.
Which brings me to my real gripe with you. Why do you commit yourself to pestering the fire out of us day in and day out? Labwire has no doubt not grown at the rate that we would have liked, and Labwire has no doubt taken the long way around the uplist, but just the same they have not diluted us out, and they have produced audits year after year. They might not have yet proven out to the be the kind of long term grower that we have thought that it would become, but just the same it has shown to be in a totally different class than your typical pinksheet. They have shown to be far more willing to be trasparent, and they have shown far greater revenues than I would dare say the other 99% of the market.
Basically I am saying that neither the longs like myself, nor the company, deserve the dedicated negative stock promotion that you have displayed for quite some time now. We are well aware of the stock price. We are well aware of the delays in the uplisting. We are well aware of the slowness of which a real company moves as it tries to grow into a real investment.
WE ARE AWARE. We certainly do not need you and the rest of your promoters rubbing salt in our wounds day in and day out, just because we hold true to the belief that this is going to turn out to be a great investment.
OH AND WE ARE NOT STUPID EITHER. While you may not think that the OTC market works on cause and effect, it in fact does. The #1 KEY is the share structure. In the spirit of the "flame wars" post, we watch the shares. We do this by calling the TA, but reading the filings, and by watching L2 like a hawk.
This we have done for years in LBWR, and it has passed the test with flying colors. This is why we are still here. This is why we KNOW that Labwire CAN in fact STILL turn out to be a great investment, because the foundation of our investment - the supply of the shares - is still very much the same as the day we first bought in.
Can BKMP say the same?
Can PLNI say the same?
Can VWKM say the same?
Can SPZI say the same?
Can HISC say the same?
No THEY CAN NOT. They all succummed to the temptation for the fast cash, and the easy way out. None of them have protected the shareholders investment the way that LBWR has.
And you want to know what's really funny? BKMP, the worst of the worst, still sits as the #28th hottest stock on iHub, and yet you guys dedicate yourself to the negative promotion of LBWR - a stock that is has never even been on that list.
siliconinvestor.com
That's why I say only thing that makes sense to me is that you guys are paid to try to bring it down. Why else would you be attracted to a stock that has almost no liquidity, and such a thin following. A stock that has not sold a free trading shares in over 3 years. A stock that used less that 1/2 of it's initial 504, and then never did another offering. Surely if you wanted to help educate the masses, or save the day, or even have a great time fighting the blind then you would get far, FAR, FAR, FAR better enjoyment on the BKMP thread that is #28 on the hottest thread on iHub AND has 633 very active boardmarks.
siliconinvestor.com
That would make more sense. Unless, of course, you are either paid to negatively promote Labwire, or if the case may be that you like to gang up on just a few posters, and do not think you could handle the amount of people that you would have to deal with on a stock that probably really has paid promoters, and the like.
In close, let me say that I thank you for posting the "flame wars" post. I am very proud to say that I have stuck to the premise of the post, and I have steered clear of stocks that have gagged TA's, and mass dilute. I have steered clear of the stocks that attract so many, and get the lion's share of the attention. I have steered clear of the stocks that obviously have not chance at ever becoming a true long term winner.
This is why LBWR is the only stock thread I moderate at this time. I still believe that this stock can be a great investment for the short term trader, or the long term investor alike.
Not too many stocks in the OTC market that can boast both of those possibilities.
LBWR has already shown that it can run short term. Now what remains to be seen is if can produce the kind of revenues that are going to be needed to begin and sustain long term growth of the market cap.
I think it can, and will. I just don't know how long it's going to take.
As long as they stay true to keeping the shares tight, and trying to uplist, then I am going to hold out hope it's going to happen.
If you do not like my brand of "promotion", then I am sure I know just the place that might change your mind.
siliconinvestor.com
Please just listen to the mods on that thread, and some of the most vocal posters. Do not call the gagged ta. Do not worry what the pinksheet filings say. Do no worry about the past reverse splits. Do not worry about the business plan. Do not worry about the total lack of significant revenue, dispite the selling of millions in shares. Put your mind at ease, and just wait for the next PR.
Oh, and whatever you do, don't look at L2, or the market makers that sit atop the Ask. Just don't ask.
In time, you may just have a change in attitude.
In time, you may come to love a boring little stock like LBWR.
In time, you may come to see that those of us that have been dedicated to such a boring stock such as Labwire, are not trying to take your money, but instead trying to keep you from sending into a BLACK hole of no possible return.
GodBless-NoDoubt
creede
(Here is the post I am responding to in entirety)
Pop Quiz Evidence
SI
The DD Maven
To: creede who wrote ()
2/13/2006 4:39:07 PM
From: creede
192 of 630
~~~~~< flame wars
Rrufff and my fellow investors -
Let me start off by first apologizing for perhaps what looks like a Dr Jekyll, Mr Hyde switch. I know you guys have seen me pump/promote/condone/advertise/advocate/boost/pimp/abet/hype stocks that I now bash/condemn/decry/disown/criticize/loathe/abhor. Let me assure you that it wasn't from a loss of money in these stocks, but actually more of a culmination of painful growth. The stocks that I once claimed, I now denounce. But why?
This post is the best attempt to create a bridge of understanding. For those that have seen the road I have trudged, you know that I pick my battles wisely. I have never, in my short career, actually been in a "flame war". I earned my first ban this week. So why now? Because this issue strikes into my heart, and deals with convictions of a distorted process that have finally angered my soul. I know that most involved with this convoluted process probably know not what they do. I believe that I have been granted a glimpse of the full picture....here's what I see.
Part I. The Preservation of Capital
Alright, after a relatively short time engaging with the market, I soon realized that the first order of business is to preserve the capital or equity that is in my portfolio. If my capital is not preserved, then I will have no means to engage in the next trade. No matter how much advantage the next trade may be, I could do nothing because of a lack of opportunity. Not surprisingly, the majority of my focus was in effort to maintain my equity, while usually disregarding the equity of the other investors as being unimportant to the success of myself. I was dead wrong. Being new, I was not aware that in order for a stock that I own to go up, other investors must have the opportunity to purchase the stock I own. Another investor wanting to purchase the stock, but lacking the funds does nothing for the price of the stock. So, therefore, we are actually in a symbiotic relationship within the nano cap/micro cap market even if we are not aware of the dependence.
Now, if you will, lend me your imagination for just a minute. Imagine a lake that is filled with water. This lake is called Nano Capp Lake. The lake is filled each year by investors. The majority of the water is added in the beginning of the year, probably around income tax return time. The amount of water that is added each year is no doubt a finite amount. Only investors that are willing to live around Nano Capp Lake will put in. There is a strong prejudice and/or fear that is associated with Nano Capp Lake so we should not expect our friends on Big Capp Lake, Mid Capp Lake, or even Small Capp Lake to join in...the lake is ours.
Alright, also picture around our little lake businesses that need our water to help develop their company. Beside each company is a lock that allows water to go in. Each company has a large sign beside the lock that lists all the reasons an investor should open the lock and let some of water flow in. If the investor still cannot decide, then there is a phone on the wall in which is a hot line to the CEO of the company.
All companies around the lake agree to use the water wisely, and frugally. Matter of fact, a few companies even publish reports on their signs that tell the investors how much water they are using. Others allow outside inventory of their water through WTA's(Water Transfer Agents). Well, here's the part that gets weird. It seems that a lot of the companies take vast amounts of water from Nano Capp Lake, but never identify where the water is going. Sometimes it seems as though their lock is open all of the time, but their reservoir never get filled. Added to this enigma, is the fact that they usually have no report on their sign, and will not allow the WTA to give out water reports. Deepening the mystery, is the fact that often one or more other investors are clamoring incessantly to other investors to put their water into that company, and open the lock some more.
Unfortunately for all residents of Nano Capp Lake, the water is often quite low by the end of the year. Many lose all the water they ever put in, and really have no idea where it went. Many of the more transparent companies have to get less, because the greedy ones have got more...this cycle goes on and on. How sad.
Part II. The Preservation of Truth
Now, "what is truth"? I was taught that the best way to find out about a company is to read the PR's, examine the website, call the CEO, and call the IR Guy. That is only a half-truth. What will be found out is only one side of the story...the side the company wants us to hear. But of course! Why didn't I see that sooner? All the info gathered in that one-sided approach is from management, and no doubt biased. So, it's an unbalanced equation to say the least.
Know why The United States of America is the greatest country in the world? Because of it's system of checks and balances....we don't just blindly trust those that we put our trust in. We have freedom of speech, and transparency in government. If not then we surely would have had our own Caesar, Stalin, or Hitler by now. The problem is that when left unchecked, most cannot handle the power and they corrupt themselves. Simply put...self-will-run-riot.
So how do we balance the equation? How do we make sure we don't have an evil dictator at the helm? Accountable information. We must be able to attain information from an outside source such as a transfer agent or a filing that is public. That's what makes the calls to management really work. When I call management, I really don't want to hear the sales pitch near as much as I want to have information to determine if the CEO is honest or not. His level of honesty determines his level of character. If he is a liar, then I damn well want to know it, because if he is capable of lying then he is capable of anything. I need to know if he is going to sell shares or not, since, after all, if we don't have a share structure, then we don't have an investment....period. I must have a means to see if the CEO is telling the truth. The only way to do this is to be able to view the share structure on a timely basis. A transparent TA is the best, and reports will perhaps suffice if they are consistent. But if we don't have a transparent TA or a report, then all we have is the word of a CEO that may or may not be telling the truth. And trust me...may don't. Here's my list from 2005.
Bob Corr - RSHN - lied to me on the phone that the company was "in the black" and had no need to sell shares. Sold 1 billion before I bailed. This company is non-reporting and has a gagged TA.
Mark Astrom - VWKM - lied to me several times on the phone saying the company was not going to sell shares. Issued PR of share buyback for up to 400 mil shares. Bought back 120 mil. Sold another 3.2 billion shares. Told me he needed to "add water to the lake". Lied to another caller saying he did not make that comment. This company is non- reporting, but the o/s may be obtained.
Jim Turk - PLNI - lied to me via PR. Issued PR stating that the company would do a 200 mil buyback and reduce the outstanding shares. Bought back 200 mil shares and then sold
2.9 billion shares(Please don't rationalize the way this is done. I do realize that they did technically "buyback" the shares, but we all know the motive is disingenuous). This company is non-reporting and the TA is gagged.
Want to see the amount of water drained from Nano Capp Lake just from these three?
RSHN 1,000,000,000 * .0005 = $500,000
VWKM 3,200,000,000 * .0005 = $1,600,000
PLNI 2,900,000,000 * .005 = $14,500,000
Total....$16,600,000 worth of water drained from the lake on only these three known diluters.
Let's just throw this in real quick as well. FCDH sold 300 billion shares before doing a 1 for 10,000 r/s last year.
300,000,000,000 * .001 = $300,000,000
$316,600,000 worth of Nano Capp Lake drained forever....where is it going? And what do we do?
Part III. The Preservation of Justice
"Those who know me, know that I often call CEO's and IR's. More often than not, my call is not to obtain information but to "convince" them of the value of a strong shareholder base, one that is built through "trust." That is, if they want "us" to stay with them as they develop, then they should not be dumping and diluting. The latter, after all, tells us that they are BS ing us and it plays into the hands of the bashers and rightfully so." - rrufff
So everyone deserves one chance(even perhaps those that use gagged TA's and don't report) to do the right thing, but what about those that lie to us. This is the part, in my very humble opinion, is most screwed up. What we should do is refuse to invest in any company that has lied to it's investors. The old adage "Fool me once your fault, fool me twice my fault" should be in effect. But instead, we often just look the other way. Even worse, some of us spin these things as to be accepted, and then promote the stock some more. And make no mistake about it...all conversations about any given stock have some degree of promotion or angst inherent in it. If I have a thread regarding the stock, then i'm making a statement pro or con in regards to the stock.
So what do we do when we identify a diluter? We should refuse to put any more money into that stock, or that CEO...period. We should drop any threads we moderate on these stocks. We should stop spinning things to the good. We should not accept them. We should post the truth as we have experienced it. This is the only way to teach the diluters/liars that we mean business and we want to protect our fellow investors...and Nano Capp Lake.
Here's the general attitude that most people have about the above situation. "Ok...so some pimp these stocks like there is no tomorrow, but what's the big deal? Most of us know the way it works, and anyone that can't take it belongs some place else." Here's the real reason that those that pimp "pump and dumps" should be real concerned about whose side they are on(yes I'm referring to the spiritual). Please ponder this question...
Where does the money go?
Part. IV The Preservation of Love
"I'm not a smart man. But I *know* what love is."
~~~< Forrest Gump (1994)
Alright, that's a question I have been pondering. Matter of fact, it's THE question. Where could it be going? Here's a few of possibilities:
#1 A given CEO could use all the money for the business, and be close to a break through.
#2 A given CEO could use the the money to pay off the mortgage on his church.
#3 A given CEO could use the money for a life of luxury including drugs, gambling, prostitution, and the like.
#4 A given CEO could actually be sending the money to Al Qaeda/Bin Laden.
Hummm...the implications there are much more vast. So where would these CEO's most likely fall? Well, the best thing to do is think about their character. The same guys that have proven their duplicity over and over via PR's and phone calls. Perhaps # 4 is over the top(perhaps not), but let's just expand on #3....it's not much of a leap for someone with bad character.
So in scenario number three we have a CEO with a penchant for sex, drugs, and gambling. Let's say this CEO just sold $50,000 worth of stock that friday. This CEO could then go see his #1 drug dealer and buy $5000.00 worth of coCAIN. Then he could jump on his leer jet and fly to Vegas. After reaching Vegas he could go to his favorite pimp and get five women of like mind(if you know what I mean), and head to his #1 favorite sleezy casino. At the casino he get to go to the "private gambling lounge" and gamble naked with 5 women, and snort lines of coCAIN off their best parts. But that's not all. Unbeknownst to the CEO, his #1 drug dealer has bought machine guns for his posse with the $5000.00. Then the knocked off 5 gang members and 2 children in a drive by. See the implications? I could go on an on with this evil, but the point is made.
Well, I may not be a smart man, but that's not love. That's just ole "steal, kill, and destroy" at work. Which brings me to the one thing that so many seem to ignore....the moronic pumper. This is the one who always ignores the DD, and seems to care less about his follow man...and sure as heck doesn't care about the Nano Capp Lake, despite that's where he makes his living. It has to stop.
Each of us have the ability to promote stocks. Some of us have more ability than others. Those with the most ability MUST consider the stocks that they promote. Each of us is either being part of the problem or part of the solution. Each investor must consider who is leading them, and what is their source? Also, each leader must make the other leaders accountable. We need to point out pump and dumps and correct those that pimp them. Most importantly, we must stop trying to sell others on stocks that we know are pump and dump.
We must stop letting stocks that are bottomless pits drink all the equity from the lake. If we all stuck to stocks that have yet to prove to be deceptive, then we would all be a lot richer, because then our fellow investors would have more capital to join us when we found a diamond in the rrufff.
These are my thoughts today...and they are disputable and debatable.
GodBless-NoDoubt
cris
P.S. Do we want to be "a few good men", or do we just corrupt ourselves, and become a part of the current system?
ragingbull.quote.com |
