>Yes, I know.....and its my understanding Israel neutralized the threat of these attacks by establishing buffers in the form of the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Hts. Furthermore, the Golan Hts is perfect for attacking Syria.
Israel never attacked Syria from the Golan. Syria, however, attacked Israel from them on many occasion when it belonged to it. So what's wrong with keeping those buffers anyway? The Golan isn't going back; it's been annexed and is recognized by the UN as such. While I thought for a while that Israel should give the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians just to try to appease the world, now I'm not so sure...
>>This was because the Palestinians were suddenly given a high degree of autonomy in the West Bank, and instead of developing economically, they built a terrorist enterprise.
>And why do you think that is?
I'm not sure what you're asking- are you asking why the Palestinians built the terrorist enterprise instead of developing economically, or why the Palestinians did it right when Israel gave them autonomy?
I guess I'll answer it both ways:
The Palestinans built the terrorist enterprise because Arafat really just wants all of Israel, and so does the rest of the Arab world.
They really started in '93 just because up until then, under Israeli rule, they weren't allowed to get any such enterprise off the ground, but once the PA took control, nothing was stopping them from doing so, and the PA encouraged and participated in it.
>>You can, Jordan did it with the Palestinians in the late '60s- however, Israel doesn't want to kill thousands of Palestinians, and I don't blame them.
That's not intimidation, that's genocide. Of course, if you kill everyone, the problem is solved. But like you said, Israel is not prepared to kill everyone and its my belief that the alternative tact they have chosen to follow will not work.
>No, that's not genocide. Genocide is the systematic extermination of an entire race, which the Jordanians were not trying to do. It was intimidation in the way that the U.S. dropping bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was intimidation. The Jordanians did what they had to do to stay in power. I don't like that it had to happen, but it did. Israel, however, really doesn't want to do anything like that, and I don't want to see them do so, and besides, it's just not necessary.
>In school, I read somewhere that should always know the nature of your enemy before you attack them. I think the Israelis do not know the nature of their's.
I think they do. They know that they have an enemy which wants to fight them to the bitter end, no matter what.
> don't think that's the case, not yet. If it were the case, there would be no one for the suicide bombers to take out.
Just because they're afraid to leave home, doesn't mean they don't leave home. They have to do so, they just have to be on high alert for suspicious looking people at all times.
>Along with you, I think many Israelis believe this but I believe that thinking is wrong. I think despair is the ultimate catalyst for the suicide bombers......dispair and a loss of hope. That's what killed many in the WWII camps; not lice, vermin, dysentery, etc. They gave up on the notion of ever living a normal life again.
Ummm... what about gas chambers, guns, live burials, etc...? Most people in the camps didn't know what was in for them... they were told that they were being held until they were taken to another place... of course, most of them were killed.
>Humans can survive impossible odds, but without hope, they wither away and die very quickly. I think the Palestinians, especially the teenagers whose view of the world is limited by their age, have given up hope that things can ever be better. After all, they have been in their camps for over a generation now.
Well, first off, they're in camps because the Arab leaders have dictated that they're to remain there. The Arab leaders want millions of Palestinians chomping at the bit to get back to Israel. Note that the only Arab country that will allow them citizenship is Jordan. Also note that at the Arab summit a couple of weeks ago, it was said that as soon as the right of return is enacted, the Palestinians are to be expelled from the countries in which they are now living (in refugee camps).
Their government teaches them to hate. Their schoolbooks preach violent anti-semitism as well as suicide attacks. Arafat praises martyrdom. The Palestinians hated Israel long before Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza. The Arabs hated the Jews long before Israel was established!
Oh, and as for the despair, check out this article:
danielpipes.org
>Huh? The death toll is 3 to 1 in favor[?] of the Palestinians. Military grade or fertilizer, the Palestinians ability to fight back appears to be limited.
Just a few years ago, it was 10 to 1, and shortly before, 20 to 1. Israel shouldn't have to wait until it's on the ropes to fight back. If it doesn't fight back now, that day might not be too far off.
>I am pretty certain that if the weapons you cite above were widespread, the death toll count would be more in equilibrium. I don't think anyone will buy that the Palestinians are as well equipped as the Israeli Army.
Of course they're not, but they might be soon...
>>Well, there haven't been any suicide attacks against Israeli civilians in the last week. That's a pretty nice accomplishment, considering that before that, there had been an average of more than one a day for five or six days before that
>I won't argue with your thinking......but I don't see how you can be so sure there is any correlation whatsoever. In fact, I am pretty sure that these military incursions have accomplished nothing at all.
Well, it's a couple of days later, and still no suicide attacks on civilians... have you seen the lists of the caches of weapons that Israel's been finding and all of the bomb factories it's been closing down? No bomb factories + no weapons caches = toothless Palestinians back to fighting with stones.
>>The first settlements were established as a place to be able to house soldiers away from Israel proper. The new ones are established by the people, and not by the government. Israel offered to close all of those in 2000 at Camp David. Arafat turned it down.
>And now Sharon refuses to close them.
It's on the table, and it was on the table at both Camp David and Taba. However, for now, it's Israeli territory, and who's to stop people from moving out there?
I definitely don't think that the settlements established for defensive purposes should ever be shut down... as for the others, most of them are tiny- a couple of families in trailers in the desert count as a settlement. People living in the settlements are not Israeli citizens, meaning that if the land were given to the Palestinians, the Jews in the settlements would be in the Palestinians' jurisdiction. Basically, by calling for the settlements to be dismantled, the Palestinians are saying that they don't want ANY Jews living among them... however, contrast with that with the Palestinians right of return, which says that the Jews must accept as many Palestinians as the Arab world wants to throw at them... food for thought...
-Z |
