Ted, <your view that we know what's best for the Iraqis.>
Let's go back to that. I think the difference here is that of ideal vs. practical. Personally, I think democracy is a noble goal for all people groups. It doesn't even have to be a democracy in the American sense. I'd be fine with something that affirms the self-evident human rights of every citizen, along with some system that has the leader or leaders accountable to the people instead of themselves.
And I think that's a noble goal and one that all people should strive for. However, you're coming from an American viewpoint. Not all people strive or even want that goal. It took me a long time to understand that concept......that many people in the world do not want what's best for the those around them. They only want what's best for themselves.
Iraq was the center of the incredible Mesopotamia culture that flourished thousands of years ago, and its been downhill ever since. The degree of fighting between Iraq and its neighbors and the Kurds that's an ongoing day-to-day thing is truly troubling. And Saddam did not create this mess, he's a product of it. In a sense [and I know you will lose it on this one], the Iraqi people are getting what they deserve or least what their behavior warrants.
They are a land rich in oil but over the years, they have developed a culture that is based on greed and squabbling. A quick google search will confirm what I am saying. I am sure they have forgotten what started the feuds with the Iranians, with the Kurds, with the Turks, and with the Syrians......and yes, they all are fighting with each other almost 24/7. However, no one has been able to stop them.
So where do we do we fit in this picture. Well, Americans suffer from a high degree of parochialism......we believe that what we have is what everyone wants. WRONG! Seriously, that is very wrong. I would venture to say that most people don't want what we have. I say that because there are so few truly successful democracies in the world.
However, Americans are a persistent lot and so we keep insisting. At first the other peoples of the world kind of smile to themselves........who are these assholes?! However, after a while, they realize we really believe are bs, and so they rip us off.......see Turkey. BTW we even look naive......put a 20 year old American next to a 20 year old whomever, and we look like a baby[its in the eyes].
This is a long way of explaining why I said what I said yesterday. Your wishes are noble but will fall on deaf Iraqi ears. If Iraqis wanted democracy and/or a better life, they would have overthrown Saddam long ago. When we didn't like the way things were going, we got rid of the King of England. Remember the Germans got rid of Hitler through his suicide, and not a coup. Even near the end, when all was lost, the Germans did not rise up and kill him. On some level, the Germans knew Hitler was evil and bad but they liked the fact he gave them their pride back. That is why the Germans of today are so fearful of nationalism.....it led to a very destructive time in their history. When people are truly unhappy, they will find a way out of their mess.
I know you are not going to agree with what I am saying but truly, what I have learned is that democracy is a relatively rare phenomenom that requires patience and ideal growing conditions. To gain it, the Iraqis will have to move towards democracy on their own......it will take a long time and it won't happen because we got rid of Saddam.
You're focused on the practical, e.g. how will the ethnic groups in Iraq settle their differences, how to bring order to a society that was held together solely by the grip of a strongman, how to set in motion all the gears of government at the same time. I'd argue that the goal is still worth pursuing, even if it's more difficult than the politicians make it sound. (Isn't it always?)
My suggestion would be different than the approach we are using. I would first go after Iraq's WMD and then I would systematically go after everything else that is wrong with Iraq....its relations with its neighbors, its priorities in terms of a national budget etc. We've got Saddam on the ropes....he's not going anywhere and understands the writing is on the wall. His fellow Arabs don't like it but they can't agree among themselves and they don't have the will to fight us.
Do you know how much more effective we would be if we showed a real committment and pushed Iraq onto the right path over a period of years.....maybe two decades. That would give the people a chance to see how things can work better......that the way they've lived for centuries has been only hurting them.
And then Iraq would be a true symbol of what the ME can be instead of what it is today.....a group of squabbling, mafiasque like states who piss away all their wealth. But the US has never ever had that kind of commitment anywhere because in truth, we're not that good and we have short attention spans.
I think our clash was over the differences in these two viewpoints. To dismiss the former would be arrogant, but to dismiss the latter would be naive.
I agree.....I really don't think you're arrogant but I think the message I was trying to get across is that you need to know who you are trying to help and understand how they got to where they are before you try to impose your values.
As for me, my attitude is poor because I don't like the way the whole Iraqi thing is being handled, and I am worried. IMO we don't need to lose our way or seriously hurt ourselves over Saddam and Iraq.
ted |
