From Heinz. Either way this will have major impact on gold.:
To: orkrious who wrote (71734) 10/13/2006 7:09:29 PM
From: ild of 71953
@Hambone, your 14:21 from Wed. -- trotsky (), 15:38:46 10/13/06 Fri
i'm way behind with the posts again - but i wanted to briefly reply to this one from Wednesday.
you wrote:
"First, let's see if we can agree on some things. Iraq was a mistake, no matter who's at fault, or for what reasons (intended or not, dastardly motives or not), but the fact is we're there. There's no changing that fact. It's history.
It's a total mess. I agree with that. But that doesn'tchange a thing. Reality is where we are right now.
So, is the solution simply to leave and let the Iraqi population settle things in civil war? I don't discount that. Let them have at it. But there's a risk involved with that, in that the new Iraqi government may be openly hostile to the United States. Do we risk an open alliance between Iraq and Iran? Do we risk open war in the middle east between a nuclear Iran (with Iraq) and Israel?
I realize you despise Bush, but that doesn't help much. Sure, toss him out on his ear.
But then what? What's your solution to the problem?"
first of all, let me say to this that i have been deeply critical of the Iraq adventure well BEFORE it happend. in that sense it's quite comical that i am expected now to offer solutions for the mess. if anyone should search for solutions, it's the people who have created the mess.
but let me try anyway. your first proposal was exactly the right one, namely:
"So, is the solution simply to leave and let the Iraqi population settle things in civil war? "
exactly right. simply to leave IS the ONLY solution. you, and many others, apparently STILL don't grasp that what happens in Iraq is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Iraq belongs to the Iraqis. the US military should never have gone there, and it shouldn't stay one micro-second longer. the implicit admonishment that then, why, there would be civil war in Iraq is quite comical as well. what do you think is happening there NOW? is it NOT civil war? if not, what the heck is it? the country is in total chaos! how could it POSSIBLY get worse once the US army pulls out? on the contrary, it seems highly likely that the presence of the occupation actually fuels the conflict, and is thus counterproductive.
note btw. that there simply are no choices left anyhow. the choice, stark as it is, is: leave now, and contain the cost at roughly 2800 dead US soldiers, $500 billion down the drain, and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, or leave later, with all these figures dramatically higher. there is no other 'solution'.
the idea that in case of the US leaving, Iraq would 'fall to Iran' merely proves that you don't know the region - not your fault, admittedly, since not a single American mainstream journalist betrays the least bit of knowledge on the subject, so how would you know? you simply don't have the info. i'm not going to delve into the particulars now of why the very idea is preposterous, but i can point you to one of the very few knowledgeable sources in the US, and that's Juan Cole. read what you can on his 'informed comment' blog on the complexities of Iran/Iraq relations.
lastly, i note that you have confined your comments re. Bush to the Iraq question. that however isn't the only problem with the man as we know. or let me phrase it differently: this isn't the only problem with the current political establishment, since they all helped him to do what he did. the points of note are his tortured logic to justify torture and secret prisons, the methods of the Soviet Gulag in essence (i hope you have no illusions regarding these things continuing as we speak), the destruction of centuries of Anglo-Saxon legal tradition w.r.t.the rights of the individual (and the utter contempt for the constitution this betrays), his 'unitary executive', or absolute power to ignore laws as he sees fit type of rule, in short, the entire disgusting, Orwellian and fascistic enchilada he and the rest of the establishment have brought into being.
it's not ONLY the war crimes in short.
America used to lead by example - certainly, always flawed in some way, but the PRINCIPLES of liberty established in the revolution were never in doubt.
now they are. this is an unprecedented and dangerous situation. for you for me, for everybody in the world. don't ask for solutions from me - demand them from those in power. |
