To: +D. Swiss (3869 )
From: +JT Jul 11 1997 3:25AM EST
Reply #3871 of 3876
I did not know how to post message to myself so I reponded to your message instead.
Recently I had a bad experience with Etrade regarding to WDC option trading. Over a month dealing with Etrade, it didn't get me any satisfied answer. I posted what had happend here to share with everyone.
On 5/30/97, the day Intel had a big drop, 10 munites before market open, I gave an above asking price order to buy 10 contracts of WDC June 55 put at 4 7/8. The asking price was 4 3/4. It should be executed real quick. One hour passed there is no confirmation message on my computer. So I canceled it around 10:20. Another hour passed, I dod not have confirmation for the buy order, nor the cancel order. I called Etrade at 11:23, waited in queue for about 15 minutes, then was told the buy order was executed, and I wan not notified yet. I asked and was told the bid price at the time was 3 1/8. Then I was put on hold, then the confirmation message was sent to my computer.
Can't believe what had happened, I sent out email requesting for official trade record after I hung up the phone. I also requested
1. the time I gave the order.
2. the time I canceled the order.
3. the time the order was executed.
Etrade replied with
1. the time I gave the order was 9:23.
2. the time I canceled the order was 10:23. It was only a request to cancel.
3. the time it was executed: waiting for market maker for the exact time, will send email tomorrow.
In the following few weeks, I was promised by Etrade multiple times to provide me the official trade record. Weeks passed, I did not receive anything. I added my requests to include the time my order was placed out by Etrade and requested a photocopy of the official trade record. On 6/20/97 Etrade sent me email said "your order was executed at 10:31 and Mesirow, the market maker, had a hard time locating your record". It also said I received confirmation at 10:37, which I did not, and consider this matter is closed, without providing me the official treade record I had requesred so many times.
In follow up, I asked question that why a above asking price order was not executed for an hour and executed after 8 minutes I canceled? If the order was executed why can't Etrade provide me the trade record I requested? Etrade later sent me some printouts by US mail. One printout brought up more suspicious questions and may be envidence that broke at Etrade may have tampered with custimer's trade records, added non existed record at later time. The printout is a chronological order of trade records on my account. It is similar to transaction history Etrade customer can see on their computer, except this one has more information on it. It not only has dates, it also has time stamps on it. It could be customer's trade record Etrade had with market maker. Following is part of the listing with the exact sequence and information. I omitted my account number.
Date order type shares security price odr# 5/20/97 10:31 AM odr to buy day 10 AMD Jul 45 call 2 3/8 82
5/20/97 10:43 AM bought/open day 10 AMD Jul 45 call 2 3/8 82
5/30/97 09:35 AM odr to buy day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 4 7/8 83
5/30/97 10:23 AM canl req buy day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 4 7/8 83
5/30/97 02:32 PM odr to sell day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 6 84
5/30/97 03:13 PM odr to sell day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 5 85
5/30/97 03:13 PM canl req sell day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 6 84
5/30/97 03:15 PM canceled sell day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 6 84
5/30/97 07:11 PM Expired sell day 10 WDC Jun 55 put 5 85
5/30/97 bought/open day 20 WDC Jun 27 1/2 2 7/16 ***
After I got the printout, I called Etrade. Supervisor Eric Tat, who handled my case won't answer the phone. Finally, I was told by customer service that he is going to get some document and will call me back. He never did. All these time, close to a month, in my email to Etrade I included my phone number and no one at Etrade had ever called me to talk to me about the disputed trade, and they don't return calls either. The next day I called again, asking for Eric Tate. I was told he was busy and can't come to the phone. I asked to speak to his boss, a few seconds later he answered the phone. That was the first time I talked with him, or anybody else at Etrade regarding to the dispute. I asked questions like: Why didn't the bought/open entry in sequence before the sell order? Why didn't the bought/open entry have a time stamp? Why was the number of contracts bought 20, instead of 10? Why was the price 2 7/16, instead of 4 7/8? Why didn't the bought/open entry have an order number like the rest of entries? Why an above asking price order was not executed more than an hour and executed 8 minutes after I canceled it? He checked 5/30/97 bid/ask price on his system and said my order price was hit all morning and could not figure out why my order was not executed earlier. He could not answer any of my other questions either, other than said the 20 contracts instead of 10 was due to adjustment that WDC splited on 6/2/97. I asked him that the day bought was 5/30/97, the spit was on 6/2/97, do they modify old entry from 10 to 20, or they add new entry to account for the split? He said he does not know. I asked him to check another WDC option I had, 5 contracts of WDC June 70 call, purchased on 5/5/97 and splited the same day on 6/02/97. He checked and said that record shown as 5 contracts was bought and did not shown as 10 contracts. So this old entry was not adjusted because of the split. But the trade in question on 5/30/97 was modified. He can not explaine why there is this discripency either. With so many questions that he can not answer, still he insisted that the matter is closed as for as he concerns and will not do anything further. I asked him why can't Etrade provide me the trade record I had requested, and his answer is "we had tried to get it from market maker and could not, ther is nothing we can do about it." I asked him to send me a printout for the WDC June 70 call listing, in the same extended format. He refused and said "may be it was a mistake to send you the extended printout" and "I'll be happy to send you a revised one." I asked to speak with his supervisor. He said he is the highest level at Etrade I can talk to and he considered this matter as closed and said my last resort would be file at NASD for arbitration.
On 7/7/97 I called Etrade again trying to talked to someone else other than Eric Tate and was told by customer service that another supervisor, Jim Autry, is busy at the moment and he will make sure that Jim Autry call me back. It never happened.
Clearly there are a lot of questions unanswered and this particular trade is questionable. However Etrade had no intension to investigate what had happened and provied answers to its customer. Instead, Etrade instisted that their customer should go through arbitration and closed the door even defore talked to it's customer. When customer called and pointed out places with question, Etrade failed to explain any of the questions and still, will do nothing about it either. Also Etrade failed to provide the requested trade record. Could it be that my buy order somehow never went through and the trade does not existed at all? And that is why Etrade can not provide me the trade record I requested? May be a broker took the advantage of the price difference between the order price and current bid price and told me it was excuted? ( I really don't want to say this, but it is the doubt I had. And I don't have the trade record to prove otherwise.) My option level at Etrade is the lowest level. I can not do spread or combo. when I was asking Eric Tate to look for my record for the 5 WDC June 70 call contract, it hit me, this is the first time I bought put. Does my order of 10 WDC June 55 put contracts constitutes a spread with my previous 5 WDC June 70 call? And was blocked by the on line order software? I still don't know the answer. Can someone tell me what was my case called? spread? combo? or something else?
All I am asking from Etrde is the trade record that indicated the order had been executed. The record with time stamp that Etrade placed out my order (to compare with the cancelation time), and that the record shows some connection to my account. (Etrade may have same order that is from other customers.) Is this too much to ask? Can someone please tell me what kind of trade record, as a customer, I can request when there is a doubt, and Etrade, as a broker, must provide? Can the record be obtained from somewhere else if Etrade failed to provide me? Where and how can I get it? Can I get it from CBOE or AMEX directly? If the trade did not exist, there is no way market maker or the exchange can ever provide it. Judging by the questionable printout, someone at Etrade may have made fradulent trade record and the trade may have never been existed, otherwise Etrade should have no problem providing the trade reocrd.
Is arbitration my only option? In spite of arbitration clause in the application form, if the trade was never existed and Etrade made false record, can I sue them? Does anyone has similar experience?
JT |
