Even if you had actually formed an opinion from a deep study of the whys and wherefores of his actions you might conclude that his hadith was not of God.
I don't think the hadith is of God, but don't Muslims?
But you have not done such a study, you have grabbed what you could from a hate site and published it as an informed opinion, even proof. It is niether.
There is an English translation of Ishaq's work listed on an Islamic website - if I were to buy it what would I find?
The Life of Muhammad: Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah
onlineislamicstore.com
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" I am impressed with the fact that there is violent conflict between Muslims and other groups in so many countries - Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Australia, Somalia, Sudan, Uganda, Egypt, Nigeria, Israel, Turkey, Europe, US, Russia. "
The world is full of conflict, we have managed to move our's to the political arena, rather than the field of combat, at least for the moment at home. We are engaged in violent conflict just about everywhere else. More so than any of the countries you listed. Most of the issues you mention seem petty and barbaric self serving power struggles to us outsiders. I'm convince most of them are no more than that.
The number of such conflicts and wide geographic spread impresses me.
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(women) "In some countries yes, in others no.
And so it would be with or without a religion to blame.
Hmm, I think there's a relationship to how religious those countries are and how women live. SA is not the same as Turkey.
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"It may represent a threat and yes, we don't want America to be an Islamic nation ruled by sharia."
Every powerful influence can be said to present a threat about what we don't want to become. I hear the dems and repubs say that about each other quite often. I hear it about corporate America and about grass roots liberal America all the time. Perceived threats should be guarded or they can become reality. However, Polyanna told me we can always find something to be glad about. You are afraid of Muslims influencing the culture of America but you haven't considered some of the possitive influences, at least I haven't seen anyone posting about it. Muslims are prone to living a fairly traditional conservative life style. Their influence could bring about some positive changes, like less gang and drug infested drunken sex clubs, which most conservatives are all for.
Muslims can live sober strait-laced lives without enforcing sharia on the rest of society .... like many Christian groups do.
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"Where they differ from our values, yes."
They don't.
We don't want honor killings and we have them now, we don't want kids chanting "death to _____" fill in the blank (this happened here in Houston just before 911, kids from a Muslim school on Hillcroft showed up when Salman Rushdie visited the city and were chanting "Death to Rushdie" - chanting death to anyone isn't part of our culture.
Nor is any of that condoned by mainstream Islam.
Wait a minute. I know where that Muslim school on Hillcroft was, I used to work in the area and I remember seeing a few weeks before 911 that their students had been bused to protest a visit by Salman Rushdie and the students were chanting "Death to Rushdie". It was in the newspaper and on tv.
I never heard of a Christian school busing their kids anywhere where the kids chanted "Death to" anybody. I've seen Christian organizations arrange all kinds of things for young people - but never that.
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"Mohammad often expressed the desire for Muslim pacifism
????
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Up and until the Muslims were threatened with annihilation at the hands of their enemies he avoided violent conflict. Once that door was opened, however, the flood gates of violence were opened to Muslims in Arabia. Just the same, the intended result of all that was the unification of tribes and regions who had never had peace before. It was a planned outcome that wasn't according to Mohammad's druthers but did succeed in the creating a peaceful Arabia. Same with most of the other regions where Islam spread for centuries.
Sounds like an attempted justification for the wars of conquest of Persia, Syria, Egypt and north Africa. Did they really bring peace? Wasn't Mohammed's own grandson killed in a struggle for power?
Wasn't the second and third and fourth caliphs or claimants to the caliphare all murdered? Didn't the first Muslim civil war start 24 years after Mohammed's death?
en.wikipedia.org
Doesn't the sometimes still violent split between Shia and Sunni date from this conflict?
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No it's not. Compulsion is forbidden and conversion is not considered authentic if even the slightest coersion is present.
Isn't conversion from Islam illegal in almost all Muslim countries? The most liberal Muslim country I know of is Malaysia and it seems to be defacto illegal even there:
Status of religious freedom in Malaysia - Conversion from Islam
Muslims who wish to convert from Islam face severe obstacles. For Muslims, particularly ethnic Malays, the right to leave the Islamic faith and adhere to another religion is a controversial question, and in practice it is very difficult for Muslims to change religions. The legal process of conversion is unclear; in practice it is very difficult for Muslims to change their religion legally.
In 1999 the High Court ruled that secular courts have no jurisdiction to hear applications by Muslims to change religions. According to the ruling, the religious conversion of Muslims lies solely within the jurisdiction of Islamic courts.
In April 2001, a High Court judge rejected the application of a Malay woman who argued that she had converted to Christianity, and requested that the term "Islam" be removed from her identity card. The judge ruled that an ethnic Malay is defined by the federal Constitution as "a person who professes the religion of Islam." The judge also reaffirmed the 1999 High Court ruling and stated that only an Islamic court has jurisdiction to rule on the woman’s supposed renunciation of Islam and conversion to Christianity.
These rulings makes conversion of Muslims nearly impossible in practice.
experiencefestival.com
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"If they want to live in a society run by sharia, yes, they should go to an Islamic country.
I'm not sure what you think Sharia is but it's not 100 lashes for adultery and beheadings and such. That is only how some systems apply it and we can all agree they are corrupt. Sharia is fundamentally one of the first democratic forms of government. A Sharia council are the most qualified to judge in Islamic Jurisprudence. They are obligated to take information from the larger community and consider it before issuing fatwa (direction) much like a supreme court but without checks and balances. Countries like Iran and villages in remote Pakistan who do extreme stuff are not condoned in the Mainstream of the world. However, we are governed by constitutional law and that will not change without a war or the will of the people at a constitutional convention or something.
That's your opinion, but you won't be the one making decisions under sharia. I think its much more likely someone like this would:
Harvard Islamic chaplain Taha Abdul-Basser ’96 has recently come under fire for controversial statements in which he allegedly endorsed death as a punishment for Islamic apostates.
In a private e-mail to a student last week, Abdul-Basser wrote that there was “great wisdom (hikma) associated with the established and preserved position (capital punishment [for apostates]) and so, even if it makes some uncomfortable in the face of the hegemonic modern human rights discourse, one should not dismiss it out of hand.”
thecrimson.com
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"So I think that the good Muslims I know are likely in a position of ignoring/denying the bad and not confronting it."
First there is a great deal of bad in the world that is the responsibility of Muslims and/or Muslim groups. These educated decent people you know are probably very well read on Islamic teachings and are most likely not ignoring or denying anything.
I don't know about that. |
