"I don't think the hadith is of God, but don't Muslims?",
The Hadith is supposed to be considered an example of how a human can follow the message of the Quran. The Quran being God's message. Mohammad's life (Sayings and Actions) is the example. Mohammad was a man not a divine being but he is considered to be protected from sin. So how he dealt with all his issues is considered to be an example for all Muslims. He made typical human mistakes but mistakes like making a bad choice or tripping which he would then correct, mistakes not equal to a sin which is based in bad intention. So a man, not a God or of God who was a righteous example of how to deal with life. He actually refused to answer some questions on trivial matters because he said his response would be used as Hadith and he would not put unnecessary restrictions on Muslim believers. Even so, you've probably noticed how regimented they have become in their lives. If not get to know some. Some of them eat and breath the Hadith from morning till night. He told his companions that to be truthful the answer to at least fifty percent of questions should simply be, I don't know.
The Quran is considered from God and for people who can read it, the language is of an entirely different form than hadith which is spoken more like an ordinary person would speak, the manner in which Mohammad spoke was ordinary. The Quran is considered the most perfect linguistic form anywhere. Scholars in linguistics agree, both Muslim and non-Muslim. When you hear it recited it sounds like the speaker is singing something in Arabic. So if you heard an Arabic sermon you could hear the change form normal speaking to reciting the Quran, it is unmistakable. Muslims consider the Quran to be the miracle given to Mohammad, to prove his authentification as a messenger of God. One of the challenges made to anyone doubting the message at the time and up until now is to gather 40 of the best scholars in the world and produce even one Surah equal to any Surah in the Quran, with the disclaimer that you wont be able to do it.
"There is an English translation of Ishaq's work listed on an Islamic website - if I were to buy it what would I find?
Probably what you are seeking.
The number of such conflicts and wide geographic spread impresses me.
Human beings are born into a condition of animus for one unto another. It is a small fraction who are able to rise to a nobler condition even momentarily. How much weight do you figure a choice in some religious club carries by itself. I suppose it to be zilch. Most are comfortable with going along with the status quo of their heretage, culture, and circumstance which always has animus pointed among and between members, as well as toward the 'other.' Some circumstances are bound in poverty, some in wealth, some involve a struggle with corporate life and some on the battle field but where ever the circumstance the same test. The same warnings and promises are present. Do you honestly think Jesus or Mohammad are sitting around a heavenly abode whining at each of our souls 'pick my team' nooo 'pick mine'. But not that one across the street, the one mommy said was right. Well maybe you do. As luck would have it most of the free willed people pick just exactly that kind of thing even though the majority will swear it was a purely educated choice.
Hmm, I think there's a relationship to how religious those countries are and how women live. SA is not the same as Turkey.
Depends on what you mean by religious. Turkey was the seat of the Ottoman Empire. Prior to Islam women were considered chattle, infantaside on girls was an acceptable cultural practice in Arabia. Women were proclaimed equal at the dawn of Islam and infantaside was forbidden. It was one of the reasons, Mohammad was not taken serious by the tough tribal culture initially. I realize you probably find that hard to believe.
"Muslims can live sober strait-laced lives without enforcing sharia on the rest of society .... like many Christian groups do."
Sure but it doesn't stop Christians from wanting a more righteous culture and praying to God to bring about such changes, then going into society to do their part in ridding society of social ills. Sharia is a word that scares you but in civilized decent modern societies it doesn't look much different than what we are doing now. It can be f'd up just like any system, and we both are aware of that. But not much worse than our judges letting pedophile perps and heinous criminals go. I don't see it as a threat but understandably some Muslims don't trust a system that has activist judges like that so they feel more confidence in a Sharia court. I think they have it in Canada as a choice for people who prefer it.
>>>No it's not. Compulsion is forbidden and conversion is not considered authentic if even the slightest coersion is present.
Isn't conversion from Islam illegal in almost all Muslim countries?
I was referring to Conversion to Islam not the other direction.
But what you said is pretty much the case even though executions for that in modern times are extremely rare in practice. I think it comes from Hadith interpretation. The Muslims under Mohammad's leadership who converted away from Islam would take information to the enemy which would be used to kill Muslims, when Arabia became a battle zone to the death for Muslims. If you are going over to the enemy during time of war you are a traitor, which carries the death penalty even in this day in time. Related stuff we are hearing about in modern times is radical extremism, IMO and extremely rare. How many converts away from Islam in Europe or the Americas have been executed?
Most of the rest of your post is accurate reporting or observations. Much of it is anecdotal Salman Rushdie was mass crazyness. A professor's email, not too typical. Even if many Muslims thought that way they are not serious about it even in closed circles. A persecuted woman in Milasia, OK.
>>>These educated decent people you know are probably very well read on Islamic teachings and are most likely not ignoring or denying anything.
"I don't know about that."
I do. I know a lot of them and they never stop flapping their yaps about what is wrong with all the other Muslims and how they have screwed things up. Most are not in any way shy about that. American citizens least ways. You wouldn't have seen that under Saddam or under the King of Saudi Arabia, while in Arabia. But go to London and listen to immigrants from Arabia rant about the need to overthrow the royal family, no hesitation at all. Sometimes there is hesitancy if people plan to go back to the home country. I've testimony from Lybian, Egyptian, Tansania, Saudi etc who swear if you say something critical of the home government then you go home, you will very likely be directed to go through a side door when entering the home port ... after which you may disappear for ever or at least be found guilty of some trumped up charge that carries a long prison sentence. The people who were that open with me also stated they can never go home. I believe them. |
