Here is Matthews interview of Michael Isikoff last night on Hardball, and his take on the mystery of the Niger uranium
Smarmy remarks by Matthews included.
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MATTHEWS: In an ironic twist, CBS News postponed a “60 Minutes” story about how the Bush administration was duped by forged documents on Iraq‘s efforts to buy uranium from Niger in order to air their piece about President Bush‘s National Guard record. The authenticity of the National Guard documents are now in dispute.
“Newsweek” Mike Isikoff broke this story.
Mike, you broke this story about bill—what was his last name?
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, “NEWSWEEK”: Burkett.
MATTHEWS: Bill Burkett having a role in giving those documents over to CBS.
Now, let me ask you about this story that they bumped. What were they about to report during that segment on “60 Minutes”?
ISIKOFF: There had been a team of CBS producers and associated reporters who had been working for six months on an exhaustive investigation of those forged documents that the Bush administration relied on at least in part to make its claims that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium from Africa. This is the famous 16 words that got entered into the president‘s State of the Union speech that the White House later acknowledged never should have been in there.
There has been a great mystery about where those forged documents came from. We do know that they came from an Italian journalist in Rome who got them from a previously mysterious Mr. X, who had provided them to her. The FBI has been investigating this case. So CBS had been working on it for six months. They were all about to air a story about how the U.S. government got snookered by forged documents when, at the last moment, CBS executives bumped it to report another story that it looks like relied on forged documents themselves.
MATTHEWS: Let me go back to the beginning here chronologically. One of the reasons a lot of people supported President Bush when he called for an attack and occupation of Iraq was the fear that they had nuclear weapons and could potentially use them against us or anyone else, especially us, of course.
And then it turned out they had the information because of attempt by, supposed attempt by Saddam Hussein to buy this uranium from Africa. How did this mechanically happen? How did the information, false information, bogus information, about this attempted sale—or sale from Niger by Iraq get into the hands of the president‘s speechwriters?
ISIKOFF: Well, actually, this is the subject now of a FBI investigation that has been going on for a year. And one of the things we reported on our terror watch column today on the “Newsweek” Web site is that that investigation has made precious little progress.
In fact, the FBI has not even interviewed the Italian businessman, broker, the Mr. X who provided Elisabetta Burba, the Italian journalist, with the fraudulent documents as of today. And the FBI confirmed this to me today. The individual, Mr. X, has been publicly identified in the European press. We identify him today in our terror watch column, a man by the name of Rocco Martino, who has had longstanding relationships with two and perhaps three foreign intelligence agencies, raising the question about whether those fraudulent documents were planted and supplied to the U.S. government as part of a disinformation campaign by a foreign intelligence agency.
MATTHEWS: Well, the effect was to help race us toward war. Why would the administration foot-drag? Are they trying to cover up the fact that they were dupes, in fact they were perhaps willing dupes of this kind of misinformation to make their case for war?
(CROSSTALK)
ISIKOFF: There are two principal theories at foot about how these documents came to be and how they got circulated.
One theory is that Mr. Martino has had relationships with SISMI, which is the Italian military intelligence agency. The Italian government, as you know, the government of Silvio Berlusconi, has been a strong backer of President Bush‘s stand on Iraq, was supportive of the war. And so that theory might suggest that the documents were planted by supporters of the war in order to bolster the administration‘s case.
But it turns out, as we also report today, that Mr. Martino also has had relationships with French intelligence agencies. And, of course, France was on the other side of the Iraq war debate. And so the alternative theory is that these documents were planted by the French or circulated by the French for the purpose of embarrassing the United States government and the government of Tony Blair because they were such crude forgeries that they could be easily discovered and that they would help undermine the case for war.
MATTHEWS: But, in effect, they helped make the case for war. And, in fact, the nuclear piece, Mike—I hope you agree—was for many people the key reason to support the war. They could live with the fact that Saddam had chemical and biological, because that would not be so terrible.
ISIKOFF: Right.
MATTHEWS: But the idea he had nuclear weapons hit our button and we went to war.
ISIKOFF: Absolutely. It was the single most powerful charge that the administration made. You remember the president‘s famous words in Cincinnati about he didn‘t want the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
MATTHEWS: Right. Oh, I know.
ISIKOFF: That was the specter of a nuclear bomb.
MATTHEWS: I think Dick Cheney had it written on his forehead. Cheney said it so many times and so convincingly that people to this day still believe it.
(CROSSTALK)
ISIKOFF: Right.
But just coming back to what I‘m talking about here, these fraudulent documents did play a role. They weren‘t the sum and total of the administration‘s case.
MATTHEWS: Right.
ISIKOFF: There was other evidence that it was pointing to, but they were part of the case.
MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much, Michael Isikoff of “Newsweek.”
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