If you are looking at this company only because of its attractive ratios, you may be interested in reading on.
There was a nice thread on yahoo this month. Below are the most interesting messages:
----------------------------------------------
Steel company should do well in 1998, according to Chines gov. 's
stimulating pakage for her ecomony. you guys can refer to the news and gov's
strategy which try to unemployees off street.
------------------------------------------------
Subj: Phony Stock Buy-back
By: CHNA_HUNTER
Date: Feb 17 1998 9:15 P.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 1 by YahooFinance
Mr. Albert Cho today was backing up Mr. Mak (CEO) saying that Mr. Mak did
not specify number of shares to be bought back. Perhaps it is a good time to
review his buyback notice as of May 13 onwards, 1996.
HONG KONG, May 13, 1996 -- China Pacific, Inc. (Nasdaq: CHNA) today
reported record earnings of US$3.1 million, US$0.11 per share, for the quarter
ended March 31, 1996 on record revenues of US$28.2 million. ....
Mr. Mak also announced that, in light of the low current share price, the Board of
Directors has authorized the repurchase of the company's shares in the open
market. The board and management strongly believe that the current market price
of the company's common stock does not reflect the strength of the company's
existing operations or the substantial potential of the company.
China Pacific(CHNA.O)says board authorizes buyback
NEW YORK, May 13 (Reuter) - China Pacific Inc said on Monday that its board
has approved the repurchase of the company's shares in the open market, in light
of the low current share
============================================================
price of the common stock.
=========================
End of Report
China Pacific, Inc. Announces Stock Buy-Back
HONG KONG, May 16 -- On May 15, 1996, China Pacific, Inc. (Nasdaq:
CHNA) made its initial purchase of 50,000 shares of the company's common stock
in the open market. The board and management of the company believe that the
current market price of the company's stock does not reflect either the value of the
company's operation or its potential. Because of this, the company will actively
continue its current buy-back program.
======================
China Pacific, Inc. Announces Stock Buy-back
Hong Kong - May 23, 1996 - On May 17 and 22, 1996 China Pacific, Inc.
(Nasdaq: CHNA) repurchased an additional 60,000 shares of the company's
common stock in the open market. This brings the total of repurchased shares to
110,000. Clement Mak, the Chairman of the board, declared that the company
believe the current market price of the company's stock does not reflect either the
value of the company's operation or its potential. Because of this, the buy-back
program will continues.
=========================================
Mind you, Mr. Mak made around $300,000 in Salary for 1996, I wonder how did
the board of directors approved such a high salary for a poor performance as a
CEO of China Pacific, Inc.
Do not you think Mr. Mak needs to step down as a CEO and hand over the
company to a responsible, honest CEO who will not lie to shareholders for
personal monetary gain ? or Keep his promise !!
While 1996 10KSB reports that Mr. Mak sold roughly 600,000 shares at
$2.21/share (what a phony buy-back scheme)
Section 17 of 10KSB 1996 from China Pacific that illustrates this
17. CAPITAL STOCK AND WARRANTS
COMMON STOCK
In 1996, the Company sold 599,891 shares of common stock, par value US$0.001
each, for cash ofapproximately US$1,325,000 (equivalent to approximately
Rmb10,975,000), at an average price of approximately US$2.21 per share (after
adjusting for the one- for-four reverse stock split).
May be you have an answer, Mr. Albert Cho !! Do you %$^&*! ???
---------------------------------------
Subj: Ask questions if you have to read their
report
By: IHATEMAK
Date: Feb 17 1998 4:35 A.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 88 by shilin1
Ever since chna bought the steel mill, we have seen lots of new issues, reverse
split, heavy borrowings and "lots of
profits". Yet the balance sheet is not much improved. The cash flow is getting
worse than a year ago. Where does the money go?
According to your belief, the money is invested in reconstruction. However,
comparing to a year ago, the revenue is only increased by
5%. Do the math, Mr. Mak needs more than $30 Million to ponp up 5%
revenue the marginal return on investment is a joke. This
again tells me how hopeless chna's future is.
Regarding competitiveness, from where in the report you can draw conclusion
that Chengdu steel become more competitive?
cost per ton of steel? expenses per ton of steel? or energy consumption per ton
of steel. As a matter of fact, the expense of selling and adminstraction per ton
of steel increased more than 60%. Do your own calculation to dig out the fact.
Chna has no control on the price of raw material. It does have control on the
expense. If steel price is regulated, we should see chna increase its volume to
show its competitiveness.
"Management said they will buy back stocks when the price goes under $1."
Sound very familiar. A year ago, Mr. Mak very officially announced stock buy
back. And he did. He bought back about $50,000 worth of stock. It is
rediculous. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Market shows no interest in chna. Volume is averaged 30000 a day. If I want
to buy 50000 shares, I will easily push the stock to $2. If I want to get rid of
my shares, I can easily push the stock back to $1.5. There is no short time
money here.
With Asian financial disaster, there are so money blue chip stocks dirt cheap.
Why I bother to try Mr. Mak's bat.
The P/E ratio in this stock does no tell a thing. In the coming quarters, the
earning will decline. The low P/E may become high P/E. If chna lost money,
given the track record of Mr. Mak and stock performance, the stock will
disappear from the market. Chna has a continous declining earnings.
Your stated "house building" would be next hot area in China. I don't know
where you get that idea. The real estate market is much depressed right now in
China. More than 20% of the constructions are stopped due to no market
demand. More than 80% of the new housings are having difficulty in finding a
buyer. With the Asian Flu, China's GDP is expected to drop about 2%. The
housing market is only going to get worse. How can you claim that housing is
going to be the next hot area in China.
If you are trying to promote the stock by bullshiting, you are no different than
Mak.
-----------------------------------------------------
As per my message #32 CHNA owns an $8M note falling due dec 1998.
They have the cash!! also because of profit guarantees, the Chinese government
OWES them $15M in capital improvements.. These guys hang around and
were trying to push the stock DOWN at 1 1/16th....I bought 10,000 and told
them to pound sand!!!!Take out the TRASH....and TAKE A WALK..
----------------------------------------------------------
Subj: CHNA
By: shilin1
Date: Feb 15 1998 3:53 P.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 83 by IHATEMAK
Wow, this one is too long. I could not comment on one by one. My thinking is
the following.
1. Most customers of the company and suppliers are in nearby area and they
have already had some contracts in the Three Gorge Dam Project.
"Iron ore and coke are purchased from various suppliers with approximately
60% of such raw materials being supplied from within Sichuan province, 30%
of such materials being supplied from neighboring provinces and the
remaining 10% of such materials being supplied from overseas."
The company "has over 100 customers, which are primarily state-owned
construction companies, with no single customer accounting for more than 5%
of total sales." "Approximately 90% of sales have historically been within
Sichuan Province, with approximately 10% of sales being to neighboring
provinces and the balance to other parts of China."
The company "has entered an agreement with a contractor to supply steel rebar
and steel wire for the Three Gorges Dam Project."
Please read the annual report.
2. "The vast majority of Chengdu Steel's sale are of products for use as
building materials" and house building market would be next hot area in
China.
3. The market value of this stock is about $15 million, which is the price
CHNA bought 60% of Chengdu Steel three years ago. However, in these three
years, CHNA put all earning money to make Chengdu Steel modernized and
very competetive. Right now, they have 7000 employes, revenue more than
$100 million and net income about $10 million. I think that CHNA's future is
bright.
------------------------------------------
Subj: The answer is NO
By: IHATEMAK
Date: Feb 15 1998 6:02 A.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 77 by walliam90
Most of the construction structure is in the coast area. Chna is located far
inside and transportation to CHNA is not so good. China has just split
Chongqin from Cichuan Provice. It practically illiminated any chance for
CHNA to get involved in the big Three Goages Dam. The future for CHNA is
not as bright as one may think.
The devaluation of Korea Won made Korean steel selling at 50% discount.
And worst yet, China has just removed tariff on steels.
The future for CHNA is not so good. Or should we say Chna has no future at
all?
There is no quick money to be made here. If I really want a piece of chna I
would want wait at least a year for chna to sort out its real estate mess, its loan
payment, and its competition environment.
What is the hope of a aging steel mill at a fast growing China's economy? At
best, it is a steel mill that is struggling to make a profit every year and is
getting older everyday.
Sure it makes some profit now, all the maintaine
nce requirements will eat all up. It is just like buying an old used cara. It is
cheap and it is expensive to maintain.
The P/E is only 2. It is unbelievably cheap. This is only a illusion by Mr. Mak.
We can see his trick by a simple math.
1. The P/E is changing. The p/e is calculated on the previous earnings. Those
earnings are mostly artificially exploded.
2. The maintainence is required every year. Mr. Mak counts those
maintainence as new investments. If you count them as expense, then there
isn't any earnings.
3. The steel mill is far away from resource and market. The imputs are mostly
from north or over-seas and markets are most in the middle and east of China.
This situation is severely limiting chna's potential to become any bigger
player. It has no growing hope. The rule of economy scale will eliminate chna
in ten years, since those steel mills close to markets and resource will grow
much bigger and make steel much cheaper.
4. Chna does not pay any divident. The only value of a decline steel mill stock
is its low p/e and divident payment. If it can not pay a divident, its low p/e
ratio is very much manipulated.
-------------------------------------------------------
Clement Mak speaks with a forked tongue and is doing a extremely poor
job running this company. An excellent example is his recent land
speculation in Hong Kong. Did you know he took the $15 Million he got
from Korean investors and bought residential housing in Hong K----------------------------------------------
Steel company should do well in 1998, according to Chines gov. 's
stimulating pakage for her ecomony. you guys can refer to the news and gov's
strategy which try to unemployees off street.
------------------------------------------------
Subj: Phony Stock Buy-back
By: CHNA_HUNTER
Date: Feb 17 1998 9:15 P.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 1 by YahooFinance
Mr. Albert Cho today was backing up Mr. Mak (CEO) saying that Mr. Mak did
not specify number of shares to be bought back. Perhaps it is a good time to
review his buyback notice as of May 13 onwards, 1996.
HONG KONG, May 13, 1996 -- China Pacific, Inc. (Nasdaq: CHNA) today
reported record earnings of US$3.1 million, US$0.11 per share, for the quarter
ended March 31, 1996 on record revenues of US$28.2 million. ....
Mr. Mak also announced that, in light of the low current share price, the Board of
Directors has authorized the repurchase of the company's shares in the open
market. The board and management strongly believe that the current market price
of the company's common stock does not reflect the strength of the company's
existing operations or the substantial potential of the company.
China Pacific(CHNA.O)says board authorizes buyback
NEW YORK, May 13 (Reuter) - China Pacific Inc said on Monday that its board
has approved the repurchase of the company's shares in the open market, in light
of the low current share
============================================================
price of the common stock.
=========================
End of Report
China Pacific, Inc. Announces Stock Buy-Back
HONG KONG, May 16 -- On May 15, 1996, China Pacific, Inc. (Nasdaq:
CHNA) made its initial purchase of 50,000 shares of the company's common stock
in the open market. The board and management of the company believe that the
current market price of the company's stock does not reflect either the value of the
company's operation or its potential. Because of this, the company will actively
continue its current buy-back program.
======================
China Pacific, Inc. Announces Stock Buy-back
Hong Kong - May 23, 1996 - On May 17 and 22, 1996 China Pacific, Inc.
(Nasdaq: CHNA) repurchased an additional 60,000 shares of the company's
common stock in the open market. This brings the total of repurchased shares to
110,000. Clement Mak, the Chairman of the board, declared that the company
believe the current market price of the company's stock does not reflect either the
value of the company's operation or its potential. Because of this, the buy-back
program will continues.
=========================================
Mind you, Mr. Mak made around $300,000 in Salary for 1996, I wonder how did
the board of directors approved such a high salary for a poor performance as a
CEO of China Pacific, Inc.
Do not you think Mr. Mak needs to step down as a CEO and hand over the
company to a responsible, honest CEO who will not lie to shareholders for
personal monetary gain ? or Keep his promise !!
While 1996 10KSB reports that Mr. Mak sold roughly 600,000 shares at
$2.21/share (what a phony buy-back scheme)
Section 17 of 10KSB 1996 from China Pacific that illustrates this
17. CAPITAL STOCK AND WARRANTS
COMMON STOCK
In 1996, the Company sold 599,891 shares of common stock, par value US$0.001
each, for cash ofapproximately US$1,325,000 (equivalent to approximately
Rmb10,975,000), at an average price of approximately US$2.21 per share (after
adjusting for the one- for-four reverse stock split).
May be you have an answer, Mr. Albert Cho !! Do you %$^&*! ???
---------------------------------------
Subj: Ask questions if you have to read their
report
By: IHATEMAK
Date: Feb 17 1998 4:35 A.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 88 by shilin1
Ever since chna bought the steel mill, we have seen lots of new issues, reverse
split, heavy borrowings and "lots of
profits". Yet the balance sheet is not much improved. The cash flow is getting
worse than a year ago. Where does the money go?
According to your belief, the money is invested in reconstruction. However,
comparing to a year ago, the revenue is only increased by
5%. Do the math, Mr. Mak needs more than $30 Million to ponp up 5%
revenue the marginal return on investment is a joke. This
again tells me how hopeless chna's future is.
Regarding competitiveness, from where in the report you can draw conclusion
that Chengdu steel become more competitive?
cost per ton of steel? expenses per ton of steel? or energy consumption per ton
of steel. As a matter of fact, the expense of selling and adminstraction per ton
of steel increased more than 60%. Do your own calculation to dig out the fact.
Chna has no control on the price of raw material. It does have control on the
expense. If steel price is regulated, we should see chna increase its volume to
show its competitiveness.
"Management said they will buy back stocks when the price goes under $1."
Sound very familiar. A year ago, Mr. Mak very officially announced stock buy
back. And he did. He bought back about $50,000 worth of stock. It is
rediculous. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Market shows no interest in chna. Volume is averaged 30000 a day. If I want
to buy 50000 shares, I will easily push the stock to $2. If I want to get rid of
my shares, I can easily push the stock back to $1.5. There is no short time
money here.
With Asian financial disaster, there are so money blue chip stocks dirt cheap.
Why I bother to try Mr. Mak's bat.
The P/E ratio in this stock does no tell a thing. In the coming quarters, the
earning will decline. The low P/E may become high P/E. If chna lost money,
given the track record of Mr. Mak and stock performance, the stock will
disappear from the market. Chna has a continous declining earnings.
Your stated "house building" would be next hot area in China. I don't know
where you get that idea. The real estate market is much depressed right now in
China. More than 20% of the constructions are stopped due to no market
demand. More than 80% of the new housings are having difficulty in finding a
buyer. With the Asian Flu, China's GDP is expected to drop about 2%. The
housing market is only going to get worse. How can you claim that housing is
going to be the next hot area in China.
If you are trying to promote the stock by bullshiting, you are no different than
Mak.
-----------------------------------------------------
As per my message #32 CHNA owns an $8M note falling due dec 1998.
They have the cash!! also because of profit guarantees, the Chinese government
OWES them $15M in capital improvements.. These guys hang around and
were trying to push the stock DOWN at 1 1/16th....I bought 10,000 and told
them to pound sand!!!!Take out the TRASH....and TAKE A WALK..
----------------------------------------------------------
Subj: CHNA
By: shilin1
Date: Feb 15 1998 3:53 P.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 83 by IHATEMAK
Wow, this one is too long. I could not comment on one by one. My thinking is
the following.
1. Most customers of the company and suppliers are in nearby area and they
have already had some contracts in the Three Gorge Dam Project.
"Iron ore and coke are purchased from various suppliers with approximately
60% of such raw materials being supplied from within Sichuan province, 30%
of such materials being supplied from neighboring provinces and the
remaining 10% of such materials being supplied from overseas."
The company "has over 100 customers, which are primarily state-owned
construction companies, with no single customer accounting for more than 5%
of total sales." "Approximately 90% of sales have historically been within
Sichuan Province, with approximately 10% of sales being to neighboring
provinces and the balance to other parts of China."
The company "has entered an agreement with a contractor to supply steel rebar
and steel wire for the Three Gorges Dam Project."
Please read the annual report.
2. "The vast majority of Chengdu Steel's sale are of products for use as
building materials" and house building market would be next hot area in
China.
3. The market value of this stock is about $15 million, which is the price
CHNA bought 60% of Chengdu Steel three years ago. However, in these three
years, CHNA put all earning money to make Chengdu Steel modernized and
very competetive. Right now, they have 7000 employes, revenue more than
$100 million and net income about $10 million. I think that CHNA's future is
bright.
------------------------------------------
Subj: The answer is NO
By: IHATEMAK
Date: Feb 15 1998 6:02 A.M PST
Reply To: Msg. 77 by walliam90
Most of the construction structure is in the coast area. Chna is located far
inside and transportation to CHNA is not so good. China has just split
Chongqin from Cichuan Provice. It practically illiminated any chance for
CHNA to get involved in the big Three Goages Dam. The future for CHNA is
not as bright as one may think.
The devaluation of Korea Won made Korean steel selling at 50% discount.
And worst yet, China has just removed tariff on steels.
The future for CHNA is not so good. Or should we say Chna has no future at
all?
There is no quick money to be made here. If I really want a piece of chna I
would want wait at least a year for chna to sort out its real estate mess, its loan
payment, and its competition environment.
What is the hope of a aging steel mill at a fast growing China's economy? At
best, it is a steel mill that is struggling to make a profit every year and is
getting older everyday.
Sure it makes some profit now, all the maintaine
nce requirements will eat all up. It is just like buying an old used cara. It is
cheap and it is expensive to maintain.
The P/E is only 2. It is unbelievably cheap. This is only a illusion by Mr. Mak.
We can see his trick by a simple math.
1. The P/E is changing. The p/e is calculated on the previous earnings. Those
earnings are mostly artificially exploded.
2. The maintainence is required every year. Mr. Mak counts those
maintainence as new investments. If you count them as expense, then there
isn't any earnings.
3. The steel mill is far away from resource and market. The imputs are mostly
from north or over-seas and markets are most in the middle and east of China.
This situation is severely limiting chna's potential to become any bigger
player. It has no growing hope. The rule of economy scale will eliminate chna
in ten years, since those steel mills close to markets and resource will grow
much bigger and make steel much cheaper.
4. Chna does not pay any divident. The only value of a decline steel mill stock
is its low p/e and divident payment. If it can not pay a divident, its low p/e
ratio is very much manipulated.
-------------------------------------------------------
Clement Mak speaks with a forked tongue and is doing a extremely poor
job running this company. An excellent example is his recent land
speculation in Hong Kong. Did you know he took the $15 Million he got
from Korean investors and bought residential housing in Hong Kong???
Most people didn't know it. Clement Mak didn't announce it. And just
what does residential housing have to do with upgrading his steel
mills?????
ong???
Most people didn't know it. Clement Mak didn't announce it. And just
what does residential housing have to do with upgrading his steel
mills????? |
