Gustave, thank you for taking time to answer.
I like the information found at germanyalert.com, but there are minor
points stated inexactly, as for example when it is said, that government
money is spent "for keeping german blood pure". This sounds as if something
much more strange was going on than the difficulties we make people
who want to become German citizens. If there was any reality base for that,
I would like to know. Because later on nothing is said about it, I think it
is only rhethorics that is pure here.
My main point still is to raise your level of argumentation. After only now
admitting that Europeans have access to ethnical/cultural diversity in the
media, now you insist on the idea that this is only from American import.
But this is not true, at least for not for Germany. (See below for my
comments on that, added to what I said already.)
But you were right to ask me not to play around. It isn't so much
important what happens in the TV or cinema; reality is more
important by far.
I, too, oppose those above-mentioned citizenship difficulties, but I
think they should be seen on a reasonable scale, I try to clear up the
picture by giving some details below.
So I ask you again to base your ideas not so much on what you think
about European TV (it is too easy to go wrong there), but on facts
from reality as far as accessible for you. This applies also to
Turkish-German relations. Lack of democracy in present day Turkey is a
fact and it is the reason for the relational difficulties.
The two most important reasons for Germany to be not too embracing to
Turkey (remember, we are in good economic partnership since decades, and
any Turkish person can come here to work at any time (after written
application), and we are NATO partners, and criticism against the military
actions in Curdistan was spoken only in a mild voice - isn't Serbia
bombed by NATO for a not too unsimilar offence ?)
are
- the bad situation for human and civil rights in Turkey
(So as far as I know, journalists in democratic Germany have never
been held in jail by government to silence them, nor have I heard
of open or hidden tortures to journalists.
The same applies to some oppositional politicians in Turkey, and also
persons arrested for non-political crimes.
Ask amnesty international if you don't believe me.)
- the two million Turkish citizens living in Germany are divided
nearly by half into turkish Curds and non-curdish Turks. Sometimes
violence either between some political organizations of Turks or
against German institutions or against American institutions inside
Germany has been sparked by a too active German political commitment
to inner Turkish affairs.
I think German politicians try to hold some balance/neutrality, which
seems to be possible only by keeping their nose out as far as possible.
If we had masses of Northern Irish inside Germany, the concern should
be the same.
So as far as I can see: Turkey is a negative example in the human and
civil rights situation, and this is a limit against an (even) better
understanding.
The parties inside Germany are not so much divided by left/right in
this idea; the more sincerely any individual politician follows human
rights the less he/she is pro-Turkish.
The Turkish interest in Germany is very obvious. People own good
money here, some of this money is transferred back to relatives who
stayed at home. But Turkey wants those who went to Germany to come
back in their old age. The value carried home is high, it includes
the social security from Germany. Why should tax be paid in Germany,
when it could flow into the Turkish purse? Also the concern is not
to loose people from home. Those who stay should not get the feeling
that it is better to live in Germany, it could be destabilizing
to Turkey. And the children born in Germany are expected to do
their military service in Turkey. This second generation normally
wants to stay in Germany, it is most understandable, because they
have been living here, and often don't understand anymore the
culture they experience when visiting relatives in Turkey.
But also the first generation often wants to have the German
citizenship after living here for several years.
In principal there is no legal problem with that.
Anybody who wants to become German can do so, but there must be a written
application. It is not tested, whether the applicant has command of German
or any EC official language (this is tested in most other countries). It
is not asked, what the ethnical or cultural descend of the applicand may
be. The problem is: Germany does not allow double citizenship. This is a
hindrance to those Turkish (and also Portuguese, Greeks, Spaniards,
Italians, Yugoslavians, Cubans, Vietnamese), who want to keep their
Turkish citizenships, the possibility to get home at any time. Among the
Turkish they are in a grand majority. Why this is so, I don't know. Should
it be that the Turkish culture makes them feel bad about leaving their home
country? Or is it because the Turkish government influences them in this way,
calling them expatriates? Or is it, because it is terribly difficult to get
back the Turkish citizenship once you gave up on it to become a German?
The previous German government proposed to make the process of becoming
a German citizen easier and faster. But the plans were not carried out
during their legislation. The new government wanted to open German laws for
a double citizenship, thus opening a new channel especially for the Turks.
The government wanted this very much, because it is known there is a high
majority for their politics among the Turks living in Germany. If masses
of Turks would have granted the ballot, it could have ensured a parliament
majority for several legislatures. Sadly, despite the wide popularity of
the government politician Cem Özdemir (German citizen with Turkish parents,
you see, they exist in reality), in the next by-elections the government
lost a big margin and is now proposing a strongly cut scheme, now only those
born in Germany will have a double citizenship until the age of 18, but then
they must decide which state they want to belong to. This act has not been
enacted, but is sure to come. Such regulation is still a big step, because
then for those born in Germany there is an automatic right for a German
citizenship, as opposed to the previous law under which it was needed
to apply explicitly. Parents were expected to apply for their children
if they want them to be Germans.
The previous sentences touch on the story of the Turkish boy citizen sent to Turkey,
as reported e.g. at germanyalert.com. The report is correct, but for some
details. The regular "minor offences" took place over an extended period
of time. They included a high amount of damage, and the boy always claimed
he wants to do a bigger damage next time. The boy was told several times
(after maybe 20 or 30 offences, and after appearing at youth court maybe
7 times) he might be sent to Turkey if he doesn't stop his violent breaking
of laws. He had this before his eyes for nearly a year but went on escalating,
and it took not only one, but several reappearances at youth court and 60
offences to send him to Turkey. When it is said that his parents could stop
being sent back to Turkey together with their son it should have been
mentioned that both of them do not claim any responsibility for him nor
want any contact with their son since extended time. The parents are
divorced. I remember his mother claiming on national TV in excellent
German that she hasn't got any interest in "her former son".
Finally, if he had stayed in Germany, he would have entered an age in
which he would inadvertently have been judged by grown-up law, not by
youth law any more. I do not approve of his expellation, but I think
it is a case where a state's law should provide some flexibility for
the state also, not only for the individual. Maybe he is even better off
free in Istanbul than in a grown-up criminal jail in Germany? If his
parents had applied for a german citizenship of their son in ealier time
(maybe at the age of ten), he would have had the German Citizenship
before his offences became a permanent series, he would have been in
the full possession of German rights, and could never have been expelled
from Germany. And, notice, they would not have had to give up on
the Turkish citizenship for themselves if they didn't want.
If you compare all the long lamenting story above to what happens to
families of Mexicans or other South American Nationals who enter the
US without a proper permit and even if they don't get caught on a
criminal offence have to leave in short terms notice, guarded by
criminal and armed police, what do you think of the US afterwards ?
And what do you think about people in the Mexican gulf desperately
trying to enter the US zone in fragile boats but being pushed back
by public forces?
The real scandal here is not the final expellation, but the media
interest before the expellation happened. Maybe the government
authorities would have had a longer breath to let him stay if there
hadn't been any pressure to take a long overdue legal decision.
Now an appendix on your faulty TV assumptions.
You wrote:
>>>>> As far as a ''mere access to ethnical/cultural diversity''
goes, --thanks be to God! Germans and Europeans as a
general rule do have such an opportunity, indeed.
However, it's essentially a by-product of the imported
American culture: Hollywood enjoys an approx. 75%
market share in Europe's movie theatre programming and
most of the TV series come from the US as well. Colombo,
Dallas, Cosby show and actors Denzel Washington,
Antonio Banderas, Keanu Reeves and Jackie Chan are all
too familiar to Europeans --thanks Uncle Sam! BTW, did
you ever see a black or a Turkish guy in German
cop-series ''Inspector Derrick''? Oh! sure: the usual
shoplifter....
My answer:
So you don't claim any more Bill Cosby isn't present in german TV ?
You did so when you sparked my activity in this thread.
Derrick isn't produced anymore (Maybe it is still running in
some of the countries we exported it to, e.g. China, Japan, Spain,
The Netherlands). But the formerly main competitor still is produced
("Der Alte"). Here there is a black inspector, who is integral part
of the infallable team, one of the main characters. In this series,
all the teammates have equal weight in the clearing-up of crimes,
so you see for your shop-lifter idea.
Also in any previous entertainment series I happened to watch,
strangers/aliens/germans not complying to the US ideal of Germans
(blond-blue-eyed or with Lederhosen) aren't normally pictured as
shoplifters or criminals. If in a crime-series the first suspect
is not an ordinary german citizen, you can be sure it turns out
later that he/she is not the offender, so the heroic features of
the inspector(s) depend on not being culturally biased.
So as long as you claim TV in Germany you are still wrong as
far as I can see. TV is at least so much "politically correct" as
in the US programmes reaching me. Maybe we have even more respect for
the fundamental dignity of ANY person than we can see in shows like
Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien (MSNBC is also accessible throughout
Germany). In Germany a film like "Fargo" would never have been
produced: All the characters are white, having scandinavian
names. The only non-scandinavians who appear are an Asian
American who assaults a highly pregnant woman and a Native American
who is a known criminal offender. This would not have gone unbalanced
by at least two positive non-white characters if produced
in Germany (even if the negative characters could maybe seen
as victims of their white surrounding in "Fargo").
Add information to your ideas, then sublety is worthwile.
Best regards, mnimni. |
