Hi Vitas; I reached the same conclusion a couple years ago on the nasdaq market makers, and swore off that market. However it's where most of the tech is so I'v latter weakened and have played a few. --------------- For the most part I don't even trade stocks anymore, while moves in the Spiders are not as big they cant very well skew short squeeze, or slam dunk them like stocks. The QQQ is my favorite, MDY second..but I'm subject to play SPY DIA and any of the XL's B U F-K E Y-V I P are the last letters, also the WEBs. The QQQ SPY DIA and XLers can be shorted on the down tick , as they are not stocks but index Unit trusts that trade much like stocks except for the down tick rule, & one needs to watch the spread on them if it's wide I generally stay out. -------------------- Shorting at times can be a hassle as orders have to be approved ( shares found ) and often I won't get any unless I do a market order , however once short I'm starting to not cover ( for now ) but just Buy on up swings, ( putting me short/long ) or against the box. The only advantage is I can then Sell limit and wind up short , or a sell at market is faster as the order don't need to be OKed. This is not to get around the down tick rule , as they are exempt from taht. it's just faster to go back short. However it kills making money on the upside unless you go long more than your short, and I do tath too. I find playing them a challenge but still a rather conservative way to bet on market moves. I do still have a weak spot and play a stock from time to time, but not anything like I use to. Last Thursday was an active day for me , I was in/out of the qqq 9 times that day, and shorted the MDY , also dumped the USPIX ( to soon ) but I don't think I want it back any time soon. Having to take the closing Nav and put in the buy/sell orders by 2pm EST sort of turns me off, also I have to hold any fund at least two days they settle the next day but the rule for liquidating or exchaging funds is settlement date +1. Jim |