†...Abortion indeed is murder...†
whether people choose to see it that way or not.
Good evening Brumar.
You said in part:
The Judeo-Christian
tradition has always held that the soul enters with the first breath of life. I realize that
is changing in a lot of people's minds due to opposition to abortion, but the new
position (abortion = murder) isn't based on the traditional biblical interpretation of
anybody.
1.Opinions may change, but facts do not
2. It is not a new position at all
And
3.It is in fact based on the tradition Biblical interpretation.
I would like to show you, if you don't mind, what God my Father has said of abortions, specifically of abortions where no direct malice toward the unborn child.
Exod 21:22-23
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
And this is only in the case of an accident. Imagine what God thinks about when the fruit of the womb is intentionally murdered.
Kill as in the prohibition against it in the command of God is actually translated;
5407 phoneuo (fon-yoo'-o);
from 5406; to be a murderer (of):
It is the origin of our word felony.
Murder and kill are not at all the same words, although the lay society does not make the clear distinction, God does. Unborn babies are not just killed they are brutally murdered.
When a person kills another in self defense it is not murder...not even in the eyes of our judicial system. When the state puts a person to death for a heinous crime, he was technically killed ( just as God commanded)...not murdered. There is a vast difference.
Abortion is clearly murder! Suicide is also murder, and still illegal.
As a side bar I must also add, as a responsible and mature Christian, that murder is not the unforgivable sin.
If you don't mind Brumar could you please elaborate on your reasons as to why you no longer believe early term abortions are not murder. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it appeared to me as though you were saying that although you once were convinced it was murder, that you changed your mind just because...some religious folks did not oppose it because it was murder.. I don't quite understand what you are saying.
Here is what you said:
Actually, when I first began thinking about abortion when I was a young person, I
was absolutely opposed to it. And I held that opinion for years. What changed my
mind as to early term abortion being murder was discovering that while the
Judeo-Christian (and I mean the whole tradition - Jewish, Catholic, Protestant)
opposed abortion, the opposition was not because abortion was considered
murder. Abortion is considered a sin but not the sin of murder.
Also Brumar, there are thousands of private memorials held everyday by families when a mother experiences a miscarriage. And it is no evedence in the absence of a memorial, that the family does not experience a true death in the family.
In any case, no matter how the death of an unborn child is recognized this is what occurs.
Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
And your mom, (as you have shown by your reaching back into your memory bank for it), that even now, after all these years, still remembers the child she lost, and I'm sure with some grief.
Sincerely,
Shalom...><>
A sign for a hand shake....good idea Brumar! Why don't we just create one?
Any suggestions?
†...Abortion indeed is murder...†
Good evening Brumar.
You said in part:
The Judeo-Christian
tradition has always held that the soul enters with the first breath of life. I realize that
is changing in a lot of people's minds due to opposition to abortion, but the new
position (abortion = murder) isn't based on the traditional biblical interpretation of
anybody.
1.Opinions may change, but facts do not
2. It is not a new position at all
And
3.It is in fact based on the tradition Biblical interpretation.
I would like to show you, if you don't mind, what God my Father has said of abortions, specifically of abortions where no direct malice toward the unborn child.
Exod 21:22-23
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
And this is only in the case of an accident. Imagine what God thinks about when the fruit of the womb is intentionally murdered.
Kill as in the prohibition against it in the command of God is actually translated;
5407 phoneuo (fon-yoo'-o);
from 5406; to be a murderer (of):
It is the origin of our word felony.
Murder and kill are not at all the same words, although the lay society does not make the clear distinction, God does. Unborn babies are not just killed they are brutally murdered.
When a person kills another in self defense it is not murder...not even in the eyes of our judicial system. When the state puts a person to death for a heinous crime, he was technically killed ( just as God commanded)...not murdered. There is a vast difference.
Abortion is clearly murder! Suicide is also murder, and still illegal.
As a side bar I must also add that murder is not the unforgivable sin, but there is a very high price to pay for it.
If you don't mind Brumar could you please elaborate on your reasons as to why you no longer believe early term abortions are not murder. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it appeared to me as though you were saying that although you once were convinced it was murder, that you changed your mind just because...some religious folks did not oppose it because it was murder.. I don't quite understand what you are saying.
Here is what you said:
Actually, when I first began thinking about abortion when I was a young person, I
was absolutely opposed to it. And I held that opinion for years. What changed my
mind as to early term abortion being murder was discovering that while the
Judeo-Christian (and I mean the whole tradition - Jewish, Catholic, Protestant)
opposed abortion, the opposition was not because abortion was considered
murder. Abortion is considered a sin but not the sin of murder.
Also Brumar, there are thousands of private memorials held everyday by families when a mother experiences a miscarriage. And it is no evedence in the absence of a memorial, that the family does not experience a true death in the family.
In any case, no matter how the death of an unborn child is recognized this is what occurs.
Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
And your mom, (as you have shown by your reaching back into your memory bank for it), that even now, after all these years, still remembers the child she lost, and I'm sure with some grief.
Sincerely,
Shalom...><>
A sign for a handshake....Good idea Brumar. Why don't we just create one. Any suggestions? |
