Over at RB, Pugs has expressed some perplexity about the nature of his testimony in the preliminary hearing on the Mann case held on 2 February. So here's everything he said:
25 MR. LANDISH: Call Gary Dobry, please.
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 109
1 MR. COOPER: Your Honor, it's my understanding from
2 talking to Mr. Landish yesterday that this witness is going to
3 provide some testimony about chat rooms or something on the
4 Internet. And I was wondering, we might save a lot of time if
5 the Court could request an offer of proof from Landish to see
6 if there's any relevance to this testimony at all.
7 THE COURT: Why don't you give me some idea of what
8 it is that --
9 FiR. LAi~DISH: I would be happy to, your Honor. Gary
10 Dobry is an investor and he govern or guides his investments
11 through use of the Internet. And what we are presenting to
12 this Court is a stock manipulation scheme wherein Andy Mann is
13 the, perhaps the ground lease. But once those shares are in
14 the market and not cancelled or returned, it allows shorting
15 which we'll get into. And part of the shorting concept is to
16 bash the stock over the Internet. I think the Court will find
17 that there are, there's information on the Internet that only
18 an insider and only somebody who is party to these court
19 proceedings would have knowledge of. And the bashing is part
20 of the stock because what the bashers are hoping to do is
21 drive the price of the stock down to a point of a terminal
22 short.
23 And there are -- just the volume of documents that are
24 going on the Internet concerning Amazon are relevant because
25 they only start sometime after the Andy Mann transaction. So
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 110
1 I think it has great relevance to what is going on at this
2 point.
3 THE COURT: I think it's at least marginally
4 relevant, counsel. I'm going to allow the witness to testify.
5 Go ahead and swear.
6 Thereupon--
7 GARY DOBRY
8 was called as a witness by the Plaintiff, and
9 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
10 THE CLERK: Please state your name and spell it for
11 the record.
12 THE WITNESS: Gary, G-a-r-y. Dobry, D-o-b-r-y.
13 THE CLERK: And what city and state do you reside in?
14 THE WITNESS: XXXXXXX Estates, Illinois.
15 THE CLERK: Thank you.
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. LANDISH:
18 Q. Mr. Dobry, could you give us your home address, please.
19 A. Sure. XXXX XXXX Lane. And that's in XXXXXXX Estates,
20 Illinois. The zip code is XXXXX. This won't be on the
21 Internet though, the transcripts of this?
22 MR. MONTAL: I wouldn't be surprised.
23 THE WITNESS: Because I get threats already.
24 MR. LANDISH: Move to strike. I didn't -- there was
25 no question pending.
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382 8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 111
1 BY MR. LANDISH:
2 Q. Are you currently engaged in business?
3 A. Yeah. I own my own business. Pugs Boxing Gym and Fitness
4 Center.
5 Q. Do you invest in stocks?
6 A. Yeah. I invest in total market, sure.
7 Q. About how much would you say you have invested in stocks
8 at this point?
9 A. In mutual funds as well?
10 Q. Yes.
ll A. Mutual funds I'd say no mar than $200,000. And then I do
12 higher risk stocks, which are pending stocks BB stocks, and I
13 say there no more than $10,000. Not much.
14 Q. Have you invested in Amazon Natural Treasures?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And when did you first become interested in Amazon Natural
17 Treasures?
18 A. There was a stock called Rocky Mountain International.
19 There was an individual named Michael Zappara who was involved
20 in this case. Michael Zappara was involved with the promotion
21 of Rocky Mountain International. I followed the trail from
22 Rocky Mountain International to Amazon Natural Treasures and
23 was curious about what his involvement was with Amazon Natural
24 Treasures.
25 So in performing due diligence on Amazon Natural Treasures
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 112
1 I made the phone call to the IR Department and the person who
2 took my call was Charlie Kricfalusi. So that's how I got
3 first interested in Amazon Natural Treasures.
4 Q. And you've invested some moneys in Amazon?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. Are you --
7 A. This is after performing due diligence, not at that time.
8 Q. Would you explain what you mean when you talk about
9 performing due diligence?
10 A. Well, everyone's probably different. To me it's just
11 seeing whether the company is legitimate, what the float is,
12 what the outstanding shares are, if the company is legitimate,
13 up to date on its filings with the SEC, all the criteria that
14 would allow you to be comfortable with an investment no matter
15 how large or small in a risky stock which I would consider
16 OTCBB stocks to be.
17 Q. I'm sorry. The judge asked that we not use initials
18 because he --
19 A. Oh, over the counter bulletin board stocks. They are
20 risky because there are some stocks -- they say 90 percent of
21 all bulletin board stocks will fail. So they are high-risk
22 investments so they require a lot of diligence. But the
23 rewards are good if you do find that diamond in the rough. So
24 Microsoft was 73 cents at one time, so --
25 Q. Are you aware of a gentleman by the name of Andy Mann?
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 113
1 A. Now I am. Sure.
2 Q. Well, how did you learn of Andy Mann?
3 A. It was either through the company's press releases or on
4 the Internet. One of the two. I'm not sure which was first.
5 Q. Okay. In your administration of your shares how do you
6 monitor what Amazon is doing?
7 A. I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm sorry.
8 Q. All right. I'll rephrase the question. How do you keep
9 track of the progress of your stock?
10 A. Oh, I monitor the stock as I would all stocks. Most of
11 the stocks I invest in are mutual funds so they're just total
12 market dollar cost average that I don't look at. So that's an
13 investment. But a risk stock like Amazon who's a target of,
14 in my opinion, a cybersmear campaign it's a highly risky
15 investment. So what I do is monitor it every day via the
16 Internet of course.
17 MR. MONTAL: Objection, your Honor, as to that
18 characterization and move to strike.
19 THE COURT: It will be stricken.
20 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
21 THE COURT: Not the entire testimony.
22 MR. LANDISH: I appreciate that, your Honor.
23 BY MR. LANDISH:
24 Q. What do you do in order to monitor Amazon stock on the
25 Internet? What are the steps that you take?
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 114
1 A. Sure. The only you really have to go by are SEC filings
2 and company press releases. The rest you're pretty much going
3 on faith that all that is accurate. So what investors will
4 talk about the merit of investments on the Internet which was
5 supposed to be -- the supposed tool of the Internet. But it
6 appears there's individuals who -- I don't want to say
7 something wrong -- who attack the stock for whatever reasons
8 they have, and they make claims. And what you try to do is
9 verify the claims. So for instance --
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Objection, your Honor.
I1 Hearsay.
12 MR. MONTAL: And there is no foundation for any of
13 this, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Well --
15 MR. LANDISH: I think there is foundation.
16 THE COURT: I think there is foundation. He's an
17 investor and he studies the market through the Internet.
18 MR. MONTAL: -- as to what the Internet was created
19 for.
20 THE COURT: Objection is overruled. Let's move on.
21 THE WITNESS: I can answer that directly I think.
22 BY MR. LANDISH:
23 Q. Please do.
24 A. Oh, no? You don't want me to --
25 THE COURT: What is the question?
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 115
1 BY MR. LANDISH:
2 Q. The question is what does he do in order to monitor Amazon
3 on the Internet?
4 A. For instance, a claim will be made by a quote unquote
5 basher, a critic of the stock. Critic, a safer word? And
6 they'll say for example this is one that I have in all these
7 papers: Amazon has no laboratory.
8 So as an investor I would call up and say to the company do
9 you have a laboratory? They'd say yes, we have a laboratory.
10 Right away I can negate the claim made by the basher. So the
11 cumulative effect of all that are these. By -- for example
12 this past weekend was the idea of Nextech. People were
13 posting about Nextech and Charlie Kricfalusi and a judgment
14 he's supposedly got against the company. So what I would do
15 is call the company up, Mike or whoever was there and say what
16 is the validity of this claim? And they would either respond
17 or you know you wouldn't get ahold of somebody.
18 Q. In other words this information was posted on the Internet
19 after the hearing on last Friday?
20 A. This was this weekend, right.
21 Q. Have you pulled some of the documents off the Internet
22 concerning Amazon?
23 A. Yeah. This is just a fraction. These are ones that are
24 pertinent. I have much, much more.
25 (Pause)
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 116
1 THE WITNESS: This is a new experience for me. I'm
2 sorry if I --
3 THE COURT: You're doing just fine.
4 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm a little nervous.
5 MR. LANDISH: The Court's indulgence, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 MR. LANDISH: Your Honor, as proposed 18 is documents
8 that I would suspect 18 and then small letters. What I'd like
9 to do is mark for identification this exhibit 18 which is
10 Internet postings. It's 18 and then I suspect the best way to
11 do it would be 18A, B, C, and so on. And while the clerk's
12 marking it I will pass it out to the other defendants.
13 THE COURT: Are you suggesting, counsel, that each
14 page is marked differently?
15 MR. LANDISH: No, I can -- I'm willing to do it in
16 bulk. But I am going to talk about individual pages.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. LANDISH: Again, your Honor, it is relevant. And
19 I will try to accommodate the Court in any manner.
20 THE COURT: Have you seen these proposed?
21 MR. COOPER: Your Honor, we have not seen it and I
22 seriously question the relevance of these documents unless
23 some defendant that's party in this proceeding today is
24 accused of doing something improper on the Internet, what
25 difference does it make if there's 100,000 people out there
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 117
1 that are expressing opinions about something? Those people
2 are not before the Court. That's not what this litigation is
3 about. We're being accused of very specific activity. I
4 don't see what the relevance of those documents are with the
5 allegations against these defendants.
6 THE COURT: Let me take a moment. It would seem to
7 me as well unless you can tie something to the defendants that
8 it wouldn't be relevant. What you're really asking for, of
9 course, to this point is to add to the injunction a couple of
10 parties. But if things are just appearing on the Internet and
11 not tied to these defendants I have a hard time finding that
12 relevant.
13 MR. LANDISH: My offer of proof then, your Honor,
14 would be that we will introduce documents from the Internet.
15 The documents from the Internet almost continually reference
16 Bruce Judd as a source of the information. Bruce Judd
17 represents First Concorde and that's our tie. Bruce Judd is
18 all over the Internet. Now I'm not saying that Mr. Judd
19 himself was responsible.
20 We don't know that yet but it does indicate the shorting,
21 it indicates what the shorting scheme is. It indicates very
22 much that they're trying to bash Amazon shares to the point
23 that there's a terminal short which means they cannot sell
24 stock anymore. And then the shorter is gaining the difference
25 between what they shorted the stock for and the zero price
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 118
1 that it now commands. I think it's very relevant to what is
2 occurring here today.
3 THE COURT: That almost may be - even if it's
4 listing -- I would ask Mr. Judd as an officer of the court --
5 are you aware of any of this material on the Internet?
6 MR. JUDD: I am aware because Mr. Landish last Friday
7 presented to me pages that show my name. I absolutely deny
8 without contradiction that I have been doing anything and it's
9 an outrage to accuse me --
10 THE COURT: Just a moment. Let me -- and you needn't
11 be incensed. Just let me ask you, you have not had any
12 contact with, directly or indirectly, anyone that you know of
13 who is hosting whatever it might be on the Internet?
14 MR. JUDD: I received -- there was a message for me
15 when I returned from court last Friday from a Jeff Mitchell.
16 I did not return the call. I did not speak it him. I have
17 had no communication with him since that time. As I explained
18 to the Court in an affidavit that I submitted to the Court, he
19 called me, wanted information. He wants to talk about the
20 case. Invariably I tell him I am not going to try this case
21 on the Internet. I tell him there are records that are on
22 file.
23 THE COURT: But what I'm concerned about, Mr. Judd,
24 and you think you've answered the question, you have had
25 nothing to do either directly or indirectly, and anything
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 119
1 that's been done on the Internet that is in favor of or
2 contrary to this corporation, you have had nothing at all to
3 do with it; is that correct?
4 MR. JUDD: That is correct.
5 THE COURT: And you have not invited -- you have been
6 called, but -- I have a real problem with that. It's kind of
7 like a phantom witness. As an officer of the court, Mr. Judd
8 is telling us that he's not responsible. And if you have no
9 means of connecting whatever it is, and I take it from what
10 the witness has said that it's negative, if you have no means
11 of connecting that to any of the defendants I think it would
12 be patently unfair to receive it.
13 MR. LANDISH: Your Honor, first of all I was not
14 suggesting Mr. Judd did or did not. What I am suggesting is
15 his name is all over as a source of information. Now if he
16 denies it that's fine. But they still come in because what
17 they indicate is the bashing goes on and apparently if they're
18 quoting --
19 THE COURT: Who's doing the bashing is the problem.
20 I suppose somebody could use my name and just between us
21 occasionally they do.
22 MR. JUDD: And in fact I've seen your name on
23 Internet postings.
24 THE COURT: Is that right?
25 MR. LANDISH: Yes, you're in it too.
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 120
1 THE WITNESS: I have it right here.
2 THE COURT: Okay. To do with this case?
3 MR. LANDISH: To do with this case.
4 THE COURT: Is that right? Well, okay. Just for the
5 record I haven't had anything to do with this case on the
6 Internet. And I don't mean to be lightminded but I -- strange
7 things happen in the court.
8 I was sentencing a fellow ones and he indicated that I
9 couldn't sentence him because I was buying stolen goods from
10 him. And it was furniture. And I said I haven't bought any
11 new furniture for 15 years. He said that's right. Everything
12 I sold you was used. So it does --
13 But I don't think that gets us any closer to -- and it
14 troubles me. You can certainly lodge these documents or
15 anything that this witness knows directly. And he expresses
16 some concern. I take it this is his first time as a witness.
17 And you needn't be concerned about that.
18 MR. LANDISH: Your Honor, if I may, I'm getting I'm
19 getting awfully close to the witching hour.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Well, don't you go ahead and see
21 what you can bring out. But without some connection to these
22 defendants I think you appreciate that, Mr. Landish. I would
23 have a hard time letting it in just as general information. I
24 don't know that it would do any more good than simply to say
25 that there is a substantial amount of bashing of this
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
DOBRY - DIRECT 121
1 corporation on the Internet. And -- but where does that take
2 us? If it can't be tied up with anybody it isn't even
3 marginally relevant I fear. So why don't you go ahead and
4 bring what you can out. But I won't allow this information
5 that simply mentions Mr. Judd and apparently mentions me as
6 well. But you can lodge the --
7 MR. LANDISH: The Court's not going to allow it?
8 THE COURT: Well, I'm not going -- you can lodge it
9 with the Court to protect your record.
10 MR. LEFEBVRE: Can we have our copies then, please.
11 THE CLERK: Are you going to leave?
12 MR. LANDISH: Say it again?
13 THE CLERK: Are you going to leave?
14 MR. LANDISH: It's up to the Court. Do you want me
15 to continue, your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Well, if there's anything that in your
17 mind can come in, that would be relevant. What it has done
18 with his purchasers or something of that nature. What impact
19 it might have had, even that would be marginally relevant.
20 BY MR. LANDISH:
21 Q. Let's chat about that. Do you recall what you originally
22 bought your stock for, Mr. Dobry?
23 A. I believe around 60 cents a share.
24 Q. And what is the stock trading for at this point?
25 A. I think around $1.25, $1.20 $1.25.
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
COOK - DIRECT 122
1 Q. And so you haven't been injured at this point?
2 A. No. I've had no injuries yet.
3 Q. Why do you say yet?
4 A. Well, I'm being very careful with what I say. The stock
5 is targeted by a group that calls themself FBNA, the Fly By
6 Night Association group. And they target stocks and I've
7 watched them assist in the halting of stocks. So you know I'm
8 an investor in this company so I'm concerned.
9 Q. And how does this group operate?
10 A. Well, as you could tell but here, they'll target a stock.
11 I don't know what the criteria is for what they target a
12 stock, but it's in their opinion a scam. And they go about
13 systematically destroying the print.
14 MR. MONTAL: Objection, your Honor. There's no
15 foundation for any of this. This is all hearsay. I just --
16 I'm at a loss as to where this is coming from and what the
17 connection is --
18 THE COURT: Well, I think he has some personal
19 knowledge and I think going to the truth of it if there are
20 people out there that do this it's providing some information
21 that may be useful. I'm going to overrule the objection for
22 the time being. Go ahead.
23 MR. LANDISH: Without being difficult, your Honor,
24 I --
25 THE COURT: Okay. You need to run downstairs, don't
ASSOCIATED REPORTERS OF NEVADA (702) 382-8778
COOK - DIRECT 123
1 you? Do you have any idea how long that will take?
2 bIR. LANDISH: I can indicate that there are two
3 attorneys on the party of the debtor: the United States
4 trustee, me on the behalf of the creditor. And Vicky Nelson
5 with the Alverson firm on an emergency motion on behalf of
6 purchasers. So I suspect it would take probably a half hour.
7 THE COURT: Okay. We'll be in recess for a half
8 hour. Once again none of the witnesses who have been called
9 and not finished their testimony are to talk with anybody
10 directly or indirectly about their testimony relative to this
11 matter. We'll reconvene as soon as counsel gets back.
The rest in the following post..... |
