Wrong again..I was a Market maker for 6 years so please dont try to tell me how thegame is played ..I would often sit on the bid and place a huge bid a 1/16 or eighth lower on INCA and 98.6% of the time noone touched it...
I can not care any less about how many years you were a market maker
for. Also define market maker. Were you sitting in front of a
NASDAQ workstation and trading high volume stocks?
I would often sit on the bid and place a huge bid a 1/16 or eighth lower on INCA and 98.6% of the time noone touched it...
This is not what we are discussing. The fact that no one touched it
doen't mean it was not executable. If you were quoted on an ECN your
bid/offer was executable, period, end of discussion. You have no
control over its execution. You can try to cancel it but if someone
gets to the ECN before you, it gets executed. ECN does not call
you back to ask you if you really want the trade. I thought that is
what we were discussing here. Are ECN bids/offers immediately
executable? The answer is yes.
when everyone watching level 2 saw those "big buyers and big sellers" just sitting there, when in fact it was all staged..at times we would be on the offer..look like a seller but really be a buyer through an ECN:
You would be on the offer where? If you are on the offer through an
ECN, you might end up being short a stock which is about to turn.
If you are on the offer as a market maker, that is meaningless
anyway. If you are saying, you usually show 10X the size through
an ECN on the offer while you are bidding X as a market maker or
through an ECN and your real intention is being long than that
might work but again it might not work. IMO it is a very dangerous
if not stupid way to go long a stock. These 5 minute fluctuations
of the stocks don't really mean a thing. Stocks do what they really
want to do in the end.
Example if I want to biuy 10,000 shares I dont throw a bid out for 10,000 thats a guaranteed way NOT to buy them..but If I display 5000 for sale and then have a bid for 1200 on the bid through an ECN..
Where are you offering the stock from? If you are offering the
stock from an ECN, you may end up being 5000 short instead of being
long. Your bluff may work or not. That is not the discussion, the
discussion is if the ECN offer is executable or not and it is.
I will buy styock and then I just keep reloading my bid with neew orders ant stock I sell can be bought at the bid.
The fact that it can be hit at any second is meaningless
Again, I thought that is what we are discussing here. You are saying
bunch of idiots are watching level 2 and as soon as they see size
on offer through INCA, they dump all their shares and hit the BID
and then you disappear from the offer and the stock takes off. That
is absurd. I wish it was that easy. Overall, level2 info is so
throughly analyzed that I think trading by looking at level 2
only will bring random results.
..very rarely does the ploy result in it getting hit..unless Im in the stock......see I decide when I think its topped and I will hit those bids on occasion and its always the beginning of the end..Someone is usually choking on it.. {Ive even gotten phone calls
from the ECN who represents the other side saying , they accidentally did 20,000 instaed of 2000...blah blah blah... and I just hang up..I never break the trade ,.}and its usualy not me..and after that ,..it doesnt happen again in the stock Im trading
I am not discussing if games are played in the market or not.
It is a known fact that market makers trade through ECNs. I don't
care why ECNs bid/offer what they bid/offer. All I am trying to
say is, they are executable. If someone is playing games with the
market to give the level 2 audience an impression of weak/strong
market so what is new.
The original post that started this discussion was asking/claiming
if the INCA bid for 9900 shares of vphm while the stock was trading
around 14 1/4 x 14 5/16 was for real. The answer is we
can not know the motives of the bidder but the bid was executable.
You could have sold that trader 9900 shares of VPHM @ 14 anytime
you wanted and someone eventually did. The stock traded lower after
that I think and although the low for the day shows 13 3/4 I know
I got filled 3500 @ 13 9/16 through ISLD. I also know I covered more
than 40K around 14. I was not the INCA bidder though.
I agree on one thing that if you really want to buy stock @ 14 in
size, it is not a wise move to display that size. But I have been
experimenting with that. If everyone knows what you know and think
that displaying size on the bid through an ECN usually shows
intentions of selling, than you can really show size through an
ECN and buy the stock. It is a complicated game.
So before you make statements that you cant possibly know the answer to,, ask those who know ...It will help get that shoe taste out of your mouth.
Usually a good sign that a discussion needs to end.
regards,
t |
