Johannes, it is difficult to argue with someone who insists the same (clear blue) sky we are both looking at is covered in pink and purple polkadots. I will see if I can pull some sense out of what you posted.
(I said) <<Who's notions [of civilisation]? There are many notions about civilization that represent all perspectives.>>
(You said)<<Exactly my point, brees. There ain't no self-evident nothing. Nevertheless various cultures do have general similarities of view, such that their members do not shoot one another willy nilly.>> People behave willy nilly in general, as we have free wills. You seem to be looking for a concensus of agreement by the members of civilization. This has nothing to do with my evidence for the existance of self evident thruths. You are a very confused man.
<<Self-evidence is rendered impossible by the human condition itself, as we are all hopelessly cut-off from one another. I dare say we are cut off from any and all real truth. Heck, brees, you may even call "eating" one thing and I may call it something else.>> We agree here. Self evident truth is that thing inside you that confirms as truth (deep down or where ever you think that point of perception is) the principle morality of the human condition, when it is presented to you externally by scripture a wise person or what ever. You were not tabla rosa at birth. You were born with the full set. In other words its a personal thing, however there is a standard set of core truths.
<<Ultimately there really ain't no dang meaning on this friggin' earth. We have no proof that we all see anything exactly the same. We have no proof that something exists with absolute meaning-- something that is absolutely the same for every living creature. There is no meaning.>> The more times you say this kind of bunk the stronger the feeling of hopelessness can become. The fact is there is purpose, meaning and hope and it comes with faith. It is quite provable to all but those who are limited to physical explanations of things.
<<But you do throw around that towel-headed Quran and Muslim junk as if folk who have no respect for it are overlooking the obvious. Fact is, it ain't obvious at all. Indeed it is counter-intuitive.>> I find it based in common sense and perfectly intuitive. I can say that because I have studied it and found it so. You keep making these outragious claims based on nothing but your own ignorance. Sorry, for you.
<<I think Allah a heathen god, but I respect your wish to worship such a heathen.>> Another outragiously uniformed and blasphemous comment.
<<Yeah, brees. Folk be ignorant and bigoted when they reject your towel-headed religion as being self-evident truth.>> Not true, many scholarly people who know the basis and principles of Islam have rejected it. You continue to throw out uninformed slams and declarations based on falsehood.
For example: <<These "messengers" of yours have damned themselves, as they certainly have nothing to do with the Abraham, Noah, Jacob and Jesus I would exalt.>> These are the very beings I referenced as messengers and as haveing everything to do with Islam.
<<Nevertheless, so much for your pristine view of yourself. (grin)>> As I said before, you don't know me.
<<You believe these folk were in unanimous agreement that humans can confirm God within themselves. Other folk don't see nothing of the sort, especially when they see Jesus claiming that folk are dead, even though they walk the earth.>> I am not familiar with that but no doubt about it we can waste our lives as the walking dead, fussing over realistate and social influence. This is a dead walk for sure. Jesus also encouraged people, by saying that if they seek the kingdom of heaven to look within. Do you suppose we can confirm its existance by doing such? Self evidence?
<<So then when I hear atheists and folk like you running off about your self-evidence, I cannot but help think you blind as friggin' bats.>> There is meaning in life, there is purpose, and reason to have hope. It has been given to us by messengers of God since the beginning of creation and will be available until judgement day. The only way to know that it is the truth is by checking within and finding confirmation or reason to reject it. Examples of the lives of those who have rejected the scriptures of God over the last few thousand years are well documented. They have strived for power and prestige as an end in itself, without morality and principle to guide them. The examples of virtuous messengers and pious believers also prevail. These examples stand as yet another proof of self evident confirmation of the truth. The materialist worshipers know that what they are doing is counter to what is known as good within them. The hopeless alcoholic can tell you what is bad about their behavior, attitude and lifestyle. This is all intuitive self evident knowledge of the truth as it relates to the human condition. If you need to, however, go ahead and ignor. Bashing the head gear of cultures you do not understand will probably do a lot for your philosophical perspective. Well at least as much as claiming the sky is covered with pink and purple polka dots. |
