Chalu2: RE >> This forum was established to debate the truth about Waco. My belief is that Waco represents a symptom of a larger problem, <<<
10-4 on taht, I belief is so many people to often want to define and tackle the larger problem first and taht often causes a jumping to
conclusions that create new problems.
Waco is very complex in itself but the public wants a simple answer
a simple "who's guilty" , not one that reflects guilt across a
wider range with the guilt on both sides there isn't any simple straight line you can draw in the sand. And because it is complex
they can't deal with it, but still they thing they can some
how deal or resolve the larger problem that this is a symptom of.
Well very often if a person is sick you have to deal with the
symptoms first, as the symptoms become part of the problem
almost as fast they appear. I could set down several examples
but I'm sure you can think of some.
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A complex equation is most often solved by finding an answer
to the more simple parts of the problem one step at a time, even if a simple part is complex in it's answer it leads you to toward
finding the unknown X in the larger problem.
The basic advise I gave my kids when they started with algebra
was to solve for the more simple parts of the equation first.
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So often we have the conspiracy theory people to where all
the problems of the world are the result of some grand conspiracy
and that'd often meet with others who want to tell em it isn't
so and feel they have to debunk all ideas of any conspiracy.
The truth is somewhere in between, and drawing a straight line
is not subject to work very well for the long haul.
( except for going from one point on the great circle to the next
point ) . ( I'm also a navigator)
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I Think I spot collusion on the part of unseen players more often than the majority of people would simple because at times I have been part
of a secret scheme hatched between several conspirators, and the
majority of people don't ever operate like that, so they don't
have a frame of reference to draw on.
I also see good and bad conspiracy , "we are as sick as our secrets"
so let us let the secrets be good ones.
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Beyond the realm of conspiracy
Like when events come together in confluence , like tributary's
feeding a large river, when a river of some kind appears
to build it's own momentum because of so many things interacting
at one time, beyond the realm of this leads to that
where so much had to go hand in hand to create the monument
the tributary's , the narrowing of the river and high banks, the
the slop of the land, the recent rains, & the early melting of
the snow..so what hair can be said to have pulled the trigger,
for the flood , almost any of them.
How do I say Waco with all it's complexity has lead me to see
something that's bigger & beyond the real of conspiracy, yet also has
a lot of conspiracy in it.
The "Gestapo Phenomena" hell that would take a book in itself
a "phenomena" is beyond conspiracy even if conspiracy is in it,
it's not so much the direct result of conspiracy, it could even
be a backlash of what original conspirators planed or hoped for,
it's takes on it's own mad momentum and the speed can exceed,
what the people caught up in it realize.
How many people in the world realize they are travailing through
space at over 36,000 miles per hour in a dual planet configuration
that's also orbiting around a common point of gravity that has
the earth also ziging and zaging in and out towards the sun
while in it's orbital race around the sun.
That problems in civilization can be even more complex to
solve for than the calculations it takes to arrive at
a great circle course and all the points along the way, perhaps
even more complex than the solution for a 3 body orbital
equation.
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But back to Waco and were was I, "The Gestapo Phenomena"
it ties to the "opiate" of power..while Marx saw Religion
as some Opiate of the weak , and that could have a degree of
validity, I doubt any emotional "opiate" is more potent than
the "opiate of Power", or the perception of power to remove
one from the ordinary ,& regular reality of life, where so
many little things can mean so much and can have a
beauty of their that's missed by the eye as being to simple
to look into.
Like my Dollar Value Index, also know as DVI, not many people
consider it worth trying , it's to simple.
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Didn't the founders think hard about the separation of powers
when they wrested with a frame work for this Government,
indeed they did, and likely they understood the "opiate"
of power at least some. They understood that things could
and would change but I doubt few could picture just how
much. But they no doubt understood how power can take on it's
own momentum and exceed in it's ability to corrupt the best
reasoning of those who get too much.
Did they perceive that the Chief of Police could wind up on the
political field holding the "most powerful position of all the
players".., I doubt it. But ; Mark Twain did and tried to tip
them off.
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At any rate we are in the early stages or middle stages
of a Gestapo Phenmina, it is beyond any grand conspiracy,
it has some conspirators in it, however the momentum is
beyond their ability to recognize or control.
By some over sight in the past not enough checks in power
were put in place. Waco is a symptom of that, but more
than just a symptom it's part of the result, and
now it has added to the momentum.
The threads connecting the CIA to the ATF are thin ones,
but very very dangerous, those thin threads almost invisible
can still be used to manipulate the ATF as a puppet master does a puppet..yet no one can really play puppet master in this show and
obtain any thing but chaos , however there will be some who
will try.
Jim
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