Brian ... back to the Free Will...
actually he teaches first this:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
"JOHN 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
13 children born not of natural descent, [3] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Let's sum up the numbers: None of His own(us regular little mortals) accepted Him. Yet it would seem that some have received Him in 12. And these who have received Him are then Gods according to your interpretation (and how it is written). That seems a bit idolic to me.
It seems more to me that the correct interpretation would be that those who chose to follow and believe in Him were given the Gift to BECOME LIKE HIM. It is VERY important that we see:
a) none initially accepted Him (when He came)
b) some did accept Him after He came (of Free Will would be my contention)
c) to those who did He gave a gift
d) that gift was the gift of eternal life/godhood in asmuch as they are also sons of God and should pay reverence to the Father - AS JESUS DID ALWAYS!
e) the GIFT is what is born of God. You can want and pray all you want, but if you do have it(belief) in your heart, He does not grant the Gift.
simple math
Adam + No "Apple" = Eternal Life
Moses + Covenant = Eternal Life
Jesus + Belief = Eternal Life
ALL throughout God tells us that we must "do something", "believe something", "follow some rule" in order to be GIVEN Eternal life. If it was otherwise He would have never told Adam, Moses, or Jesus to tell their followers to believe in Him or what He said. What would it matter to Him who did what if He already has picked.
Let me pose a few examples to you:
1) person a. is the person who does not believe he is saved. he does not believe in god, nor even any supperior being. he rules his world while he has it. he dies. where does he go? never having known God, you say that he might have a chance of going to heaven if God just happened to randomly pick him out of a hat(so to speak). But the above scripture blatantly contradicts this idea by stating (positively) that those who believed were given the gift.
2) person b is "saved at birth". never believes in anyone who isn't stronger than himself, but would believe in god if he saw him (say in prison or a foxhole). Kills five million Jews, chistians, and a few million other misc. gypsies and thieves. he dies. goes straight to hell. why you ask? because scripture clearly states that you MUST BELIEVE (and this presumption is made:) WHILE YOU ARE ALIVE. But he was saved at birth?
3) is a chinese man. he does not initially believe in anything other than his tribal customs. he lives on the Yellow river. One day, for the first time in his life he meets a man with a Bible. he reads the Bible and DECIDES it is worth following. He dies. Well, since he Believes, Jesus gives him the Gift forementioned. you would say he was saved before he was ever given the Bible. and made the Choice.
-it is clear from the ENTIRE PASSAGE, however that WHOEVER COMES TO BELIEVE(because initially it is said that NONE believe) will be SAVED, NOT WHOEVER is CHOSEN WILL BE MADE A BELIEVER. It is clear that God's Choosing is a choice to GIVE a Gift upon those who Chose to believe.
Q. how did this come to pass?
A. Free Will.
-maouse
ps. sons of god are born by chosing to receive Christ and then a gift from Christ(and it is this Gift which man cannot decide to grant themselves...) ie. chosing to receive God, whether that comes through a faith belief or through seeing His wonders and believing for sure.
basically the scripture states that man can choose to follow god, and if so then maybe god will grant his the gift of eternal life. it creates stuardship while not diminishing the divine power of god. this happens all over in the scriptures.
-bet you wish I had put that at the top ;) |
