RE>>Congrats on meeting a fellow believer Brian... maybe you two can go talk yourselves into circles for a while... ;)<<
Hey I'm not the one talking in circles here... You should see what Monu just posted me in response to this verse... He is actually in worse shape that you if you can believe that ..:}
I asked Monu to explain this verse :
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
He came back and said he owned a commentary { let's hope he got it cheap } that proved that Hate does not really mean Hate it just meant that God loved Jacob perfectly and loved Esau less perfectly.. or something to that effect..
I wondered then if I could find a COMMENTARY that might teach that Love is not really Love it just means that God hated Esau and just hated Jacob a little less perfectly.
What am I supposed to do with people who want to change the natural meanings that God gave to Languages when He gave them at the tower of Babel ???
The word used in that verse for HATE appears 42 times in the new testament... shall we take the all 42 words as actually meaning love but just a lower form of love ???
Here's the funny part... if that word does not mean hate we have no Greek word in the New Testament for Hate...
Here's an even bigger laugh to me... This verse is quoted out of the Old Testament by Paul to teach what I am saying ... Look:
Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
So according to Monu and his highly spiritual commentary poets.. This verse really means:
I the LORD GOD almighty loved Esau a little less than Jacob so I destroyed his heritage forever and gave it over to the devil ( dragons of the wilderness ) but hey I still love the guy right!
Are you guys serious... Am I talking in circle and using slight of hand to prove something amiss ???
Good grief guys the word for Hate used in the old testament MEANS HATE !!!
===== It is GOD doing that HATING ! =====
I don't serve a God that is bound by the way you guys wish he was or think he must be I serve the GOD of the BIBLE !
RE>>Satan gets them they were never His.<<
This part you got right ! look:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
..... were not all of US.
That is EXACTLY what this verse teaches... Those who are not chosen from the foundation of the world can "believe" but not endure to the end. The Devil and his angels believe but not savingly that is the argument James uses to show that there is saving faith and unsaving belief which does not save.
John BOLDLY states that if they do not continue to the end it is NOT because the DEVIL won over some of God's chosen but rather that they are won over because they were never chosen or of us ! NEVER EVER ! Those in whom Christ finishes the work are the chosen !
Those who were chosen from the foundation of the world are called and chosen BOTH !!!! Not just called !
Many are called but few are chosen.
Saying that God loved Esau less is of little help... The man's entire heritage was cursed by God and Esau ended in HELL !
Who cares what you guys want to "call it" that is hate in anybody's books not just GOD'S HOLY BOOK !
You guys are willing to completely change the meaning of three languages to get away from this truth that I find it amazing but then to say that I am the one who speaks in circles is just foolishness at that point !
Hey Valentine too bad the love of God is only ON you .... Na na na na boo boo :-} ( oh no they're winning )
RE>> have a question; does God just get the "easy ones"?<<
Now here is another interesting thing... Monu says to me that God chose Jacob because He foresaw what Jacob would do ! Jacob I suppose would have been the easy one doing good I presume ... Hmmmmm
That is curious because if Monu would have just spent a little time in Romans 9 instead of some corrupt commentary he may have noticed that the verse right after there DENIES THAT PROPOSITION ON PURPOSE ! WITH INTENT !!! Look:
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
I suppose there is some commentary that will teach enough mumbo jumbo to hide the plain truth of that passage somewhere. Only $29.95 plus shipping and mishandling !
If God Chooses on the basis of forseen BEHAVIOR then ESAU should have gone to heaven and Jacob would have been hated..
Jacob was the Worst one!! Esau surely would have been easier but so that 'Election Might Stand " ( Words of God through Paul ) Read your BIBLES Grow every day !
Go read your Old Testament so you can understand the New Testament guys Please you would not be saying such silly things if you would have gone to sunday school like you shoulda :-} Now all you need do is shut off the TV just long enough to show God you care and read His word ! Too easy !
RE>>The call isn't to the Ceasar, Herod, Hitlers and the like. <<
Ok at least your not saying All are called but few choose. You at least have the first half right Many ( but not all ) are called... now if you could just see the Chosen part you would be over the hurdle of your foolish flesh and a whole new world would open up to you...( It;s not easy I know... I went through it remember )
See this great record of God's Eternal Love for the Chosen !:
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
These are those who are predestinated by God to be both called and chosen and saved ! They are not the easy ones
RE>>I have a question; does God just get the "easy ones"?<<
Can you imagine for one moment ME BEING EASY TO SAVE ??? COME ON MAN !!! Think about it
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
== Not the easy ones... the predestinated and chosen ones ! ==
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
For many are called but few are predestinated and chosen unto eternal life in Christ Jesus - Potentate !
Could God hate Hitler and still be Righteous and God ?
Could God not hate Hitler and still be good ?
Is God allowed to hate the wicked ?
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity
It means Hate monu ;-}
Is "accepting " a work of the flesh or a Gift of the Spirit ? I wish you guys could accept these truths from Jesus ! |
