Esau did indeed go to hell... Sorry for not including that in the post:
Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
This verse teaches that Esau was a "profane fornicator".
Those whose sins are forgiven who are loved by the Father are called men of Faith and there errors are not mentioned being under the Blood of the Lamb.
Try to find a verse written of David that says he was an " adulterer" or of Abraham about how he "lost faith" and tried to continue in the flesh with Hagar and the birth of Ishmael ?
The fact that Esau is used by the Holy Spirit as an example of a Fornicator is proof that He is indeed being punished in Hell forever.
RE>>For example, when God hates someone or something, he thoroughly hates that person or thing and is bound and determined to destroy it. And when believers are told to hate someone (say the wicked or the world or whoever), they are literally and thoroughly to hate that person. Is this correct?<<
We are to "LOVE" our enemies in Practice according to the Law but yes We are to hate them in as much as they are the enemies of Christ! Is it impossible to Love those you hate ?
If you do not hate them then how are they your enemies ? Enemies are enemies... they hate you and you hate them ! They act in hate to you but you act in love to them !
AS it is written:
Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
I believe that God is showing me that your line of argument would be related to this verse:
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Many men when they grow old who have tried to serve Christ will compromise because of Unsaved family members. Men who kept God's Sabbath will break it in old age to be close to sabbath breaking children and grandchildren. This is to hate God and to love the world:
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
I do indeed believe that that verse is speaking of hate that is valid when they stand against Christ and His word. satan tries to use family members indeed the " Eve " of our life to cause us to forsake Jesus !
Adam should have hated Eve at that point... does this mean Men should hate their wives ?? Bruce you grow silly in your arguments:
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
This is "presuming" that your wife is not in direct conflict with your walk with the Lord ! That she is either a believer as she should be if you married after getting saved or "willing to be at peace" with your service to Christ.
1Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
I will tell you something most men have not the nerve.. if any man is married to an unbelieving woman who is contentious and at strife concerning his walk with the Lord He should leave her. Even if in his flesh he "loves" her !
Read the book of Ezra:
Ezra 10:11 Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
What could you hope to gain by trying to prove that Hate was a mere statement of "degrees" if the final end of them no matter what degree is eternal fire ? What have you gained ?
You have not prayed about and studied Romans 9 very carefully if you cannot see WHY Paul quoted those words from the Old Testament !
How intense was God's hatred of Esau ? Who cares Bruce... God saved Jacob and left Esau in the curse of Adam to perish ! How much does God hate sinners... Is eternal hell a mere taste of that hate ? Is it 10% or 20% or 100% of God's wrath ?
Is God's Wrath merely 99% of His patience ? What could you hope to gain with this argument ? Rather submit yourself to the plain teaching of God's Word. Do not wrest the scriptures accept them lest you cause yourself hurt:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Wrest is the root for the word "wrestle" We as men are called to believe ALL of what God has taught like it or not !
Paul plainly teaches that God Hated Esau...
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
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Bruce it doesn't get any plainer than those verses ! Playing with the meaning of the words is nothing less than " wresting " Be very careful:
Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
Don't let your flesh or carnal mind rule what the scriptures must say ! Let them say what they say and ask God to help you accept it. Trust HIM.
Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Remember if your flesh likes the doctrine that is not aa good sign :-}
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Again:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Bruce if you were a false teacher and you wished to please those who came to you with "itchy eared" things what do you think you would teach and say ??
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
What do those teachers teach ???
No need to repent just accept maybe...
No more moral law all gone in Jesus....
God loves everyone....
There is no hell...
Bible not important...
God just wants us happy forget righteous ....
Can you go on ?
I am far from popular :-} |
