... why is the public so insensitive [to Govt. manipulations] ? Richnorth
<<Is it because they are products of an educational system that didn't teach
them critical thinking or how to think ? Or is it because it doesn't matter
what the Govt. does as long as they are having the good life ?>> Richnorth
Another approach to arrive at an understanding might be to identify what
means are available for those who observe wrong doing and wish to engage
a process that will remove and correct, and prevent another occurrence.
Imagine if that what you have observed as incorrect was able to control the
process you will use. Imagine if you are allowed only to take a path created
by those you wish to identify as incorrect. Imagine that this is in place,
and many before you have tried and failed, and resulted with a conclusion to
be knowned by all others that you will not be able to right a wrong, and also
not be able to prevent more occurances of this type of activity.
End result is to accept and not complain, or complain and take a course of
action that has already been set up so that you will not succeed unless you
are willing to accept rules and terms and conditions that will cause you to
become that wish you wish to change.
Either you switch from being a victim by joining those who made you a victim
or you take steps to lessen the amount you are victimized by decreasing your
exposure either by actual or imaginary means.
On this thread a microcosm example is observed by DoubleD to accomplish a
defense of hedging by the undefendable Barrick(ABX). DoubleD will attack
on this thread with abandon, but observe he will only supply information
to support his stand by telling you to obtain it yourself by going to the
Barrick thread and then follow the instructions there directing you to go
to the official Barrick Company Web Site and obtain The Truth, and if you
are not able to then accept that you are not smart enough or learned enough
to understand and then must accept DoubleD's thoughts on Barrick without
trying to obtain if DoubleD has an agenda.
To: DoubleD
From: Terry Swift Friday
IMO, Barrick will not participate in a gold bull market to the extent
unhedged producers will. I'm not familiar with Barrick's hedge program
but if Barrick can opt out of it's forward sales agreements (as many
Barrick supporters claim it can) in order to fully participate in a gold
bull market, it most certainly paid a price for that option. If not, the
people on the other side of that contract are idiots. Until we have full
reporting transparency regarding producers hedge programs, Barrick's
shareholders will never know what it's costing them to maintain the
hedge program Barrick has.
There is no free lunch. Despite their claims, Barrick can't have it both
ways. For example, I have no doubt Barrick could find a bullion bank
that would agree to buy Barrick's forward sales of gold at $500/oz. The
obvious question is... what would Barrick have to pay for such a
contract? In a word; plenty. But they don't have to disclose that, so
their stockholders are not aware of such costs. Good luck with ABX, I
think their hedge book is in worse shape than anyone realizes, except
Barrick.
To: Terry Swift
From: DoubleD
<<. I'm not familiar with Barrick's hedge program>>
That says it all - and makes the rest of your post completely worthless.
I don't know how long you have been following this, or the Barrick
threads - but this has been gone over time and time again - but there
are those like you who pontificate on Barrick - and even admit they know
nothing about the hedge programme!! In the land of the blind, etc.
To: DoubleD
From: wmchen
Perhaps you would enlighten us about the hedge program ! In particular:
1. Does this company have an OBLIGATION to deliver gold ? In my country,
an obligation to deliver is called a DEBT...
2. Do you think that most investors in gold (shareholders) would consider
this a good investment; A DEBT of gold offset by a fiat credit plus
interest accruing at less than treasury rates ?
To: wmchen From: DoubleD
... if you want to attack the hedge programme
... study it on the Barrick home page
... then get into the specifics of what you object to
To: wmchen
From: DoubleD
Read it! And report back!
I'm not sure what debt you are referring to?
And let's do this on the Barrick page or not at all
To: DoubleD
From: wmchen
I deplore the UN-transparency of hedging
I deplore what hedging by the industry has done to the price of gold
To: DoubleD
From: Terry Swift
Obviously, you don't know anything about Barrick's hedge program either,
since your only response is to tell everyone to go to Barrick's home
page and read it. Why read their own propaganda? Will it disclose the
cost of Barrick's hedge positions? NO. That is the point of my post.
Apparently, you missed it.
Again, common sense economics dictates that in order for Barrick to have
the program they claim to have; i.e., one in which they can opt out of
forward sales commitments if the POG goes up, they must pay for that
very crucial option. Until Barrick discloses the costs of its hedge
program, stockholder's don't have a clue whether the program is even a
profitable one.
The only thing Barrick trumpets every quarter is that it
received an average price of ______ (pick a number) for the gold it sold
during that quarter. That number is usually $100-150 over the spot price
for the quarter. It all sounds really great; Barrick is able to sell its
gold for $100-150 over spot and what's even more amazing is they
continue to do so in a falling market that has been falling for over 3
years. What nobody knows is what it costs them to do so. Like I said,
Barrick can contract to sell gold at $500/oz. Wouldn't that be great?
Getting $500/oz for their gold? It would look great in their quarterly
reports. Of course, anyone with an IQ in double digits would have to
ask; how is that possible without paying a huge price for the right to
sell at $500/oz? That's the problem. What is the cost of their hedge
program? You won't find it on Barrick's web site or anywhere else.
To: Terry Swift
From: DoubleD
Try the Barrick thread. |
