Good Day Robert.. I finally am getting back to your post.
To be quite honest I have not spent much time on eschatology for years. I have been more involved in Theonomy and Church Government. Recently had to leave a church that I was heavily involved in starting due to very distinct differences over the perpentuity of the Solemn League and Covenant of 1643. Also the place of subordinate standards among Christians and the extent of there ability to bind the conscious of men. I highly disagreed with their stance and do maintain that..
God alone is the Lord of the conscience and has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men
(B.V. no matter how carefully framed to agree with the Word of God ) and...
The Word of God alone is the rule of faith and practice.
( B.V. NO matter how Godly or rightly constituted they may feel the church government is )
RE>>Jesus Christ has fullfilled all prophesy at Calvary, the scriptures you quote have been fullfilled<<
I believe this is your presupposition rather than actual findings. Your "system" - Full Preterism starts with that axiom and then works from there. That is know as 'Apriori Exegesis' in case no one ever told you the "official" name for it and it is where you put on the system first and then see how well scripture fits it. That may suit in some cases when there are not so many variables involved but concerning such a big topic as this it may end up misleading.
Certainly your response that all those verse have been fulfilled come more form that perspective than your actually knowing when and where they were fulfilled.
For instance:
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
You dismissed this verse as being fulfilled... When has this world ever seen a point in History when the Nations have destroyed their tools of war and turned them into agricultural ( beneficial ) tools instead? Or when has this world see any time when no nation at all was lifting up sword ( war ) against another nation?
Robert you have to deal with these verses as well considering peace before you spiritualize that passage or minimize the full scope of it.
Jesus plainly spoke to those who thought that His kingdom would be realized without warfare. What KIND of Warfare however is spoken of in this statement:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Does this statement infer a perpetual state of enmity wherein the Gospel will never convert the Gentile Nations and Christ will be the cause of endless war on earth?
If so then where does the Word of the Lord to Isaiah get fulfilled? The vision cannot be speaking only of the eternal state. It is a vision Concerning Judah and Jerusalem not Heaven or the Heavenly Jerusalem as some may force upon it. Look:
Isaiah2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
That about the earthly State even ALL OF ISRAEL
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Terms like "Last Days" need not be so confined as to simply be referring to the destruction of Israel and that only.
Surely there is also a "Last Days" concerning the end of the World also. Even the LAST DAY when the resurrection will take place of all who have ever lived including the "tares".
Now how can a preterist possibly think that the "Last Days" spoken of in Isaiah's verse could ever refer to the time of the destruction of Israel. This verse is not at all about the destruction of Israel it is rather about the eventual fulfillment of the Salvation of Israel the Nation.
National Salvation promised by their Election... BTW none of this addresses the Salvation of Individual Jews. That is another topic yet not unrelated or irrelevant.
RE>>Spiritual Kingdom made up of all who have been " born again " by the Spirit of God<<
You are referring to Individual election the Chosen Ones , the Redeemed of the Lord I agree 100% that when you speak about the eternal state in Heaven that the " Israel of God" in that case refers to all who are sheep both of Gentiles and Jews.:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
That verse refers to HEAVEN... there are still Bond and Free and my wife submits to me here on earth according to the creation ordinance. You see Jesus did not change that. There are still bond and free men and there are still Jews according to the flesh. We must however be careful not to mix apples with oranges. Some use the verse I just quoted to try and justify female preachers in the church. They have failed to see it refers to the eternal condition not the earthly. You are making a similar mistake. There is both an eternal condition and a temporal. The earthly promises to earthly Israel will still be realized. God did not change His mind at the last minute because Israel rejected the Messiah. It was this same Isaiah to whom God gave the vision of the Cross in Chapter 53.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
It is not merely to do with Individuals either look at the preamble concerning the Sacrifice of Jesus God's Son:
Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
Sprinkle many nations means " Baptize many nations "
Also Jesus taught His Disciple and we that very thing:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Sprinkling the Nations not just individuals.
I repeat I am a partial preterist and do believe that the Gospel was "preached throughout all the nations" before the destruction of Israel ( In the known world at that time )
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This verse does speak about an end but it is the end of the Temple Worship and the period of Grace for Israel and the Old Covenant - New Covenant Transition period which terminates with the Judgement of Israel in 70 AD.
Jesus sent to them many noble servants which they were to treat scornfully and store up even more wrath to that terrible day. :
Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
This is the end spoken of in that verse but many people stumble at the words of Christ when He said this:
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Many people think that those words need to be yet fulfilled and so with you I agree at this point that they were fulfilled prior to 70 AD:
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
That verse teaches that Paul speaks of the Gospel being known by all nations prior to 70 AD:
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
There are no more apostles after those men went to glory so a future fulfillment of that verse is not possible and had to refer to that current day. Else you have ongoing apostles and that cannot be according to Pauls own criteria for Apostleship being having "seen the Lord"
Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
It becomes obvious that the use of the terms all nations and world does not neccesitate the knowledge of America or Australia to have been an accepted term of speach. Those who insist Jesus must mean the whole world as we know it must then do even bigger gymnastics with these verses and the term "This Generation":
Concerning His rejection and crucifixion:
Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Concerning Him rejecting Israel and the Temple in Judgement:
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
RE>>Jesus Himself stated that His Kingdom was not from this world. <<
This is a crucial error in your exegetical process. You are quite right to say that Jesus said His Kingdom was not FROM this world but that does not mean it is not in it:
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
This verse teaches that Jesus has a kingdom that does not take it's SOURCE from this world. Indeed the kingdoms of this world are established through sword and fighting. In fact if your "KING" is captured before you even have a land you are pretty much done. Jesus was "delivered to the Jews" rather than taking up sword because that was the way Jesus would establish HIS KINGDOM on EARTH !
Look at this very similar verses:
1 John 4:5 They are of the world,: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
We are in the world but we are not of the world. God is our source and we do not fight flesh and blood as others who seek a kingdom:
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
We are in this world and we do indeed proclaim the Rights of our King Jesus over all earthly rulers. Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of all earthly Lords. The kingdom of Christ is in this world but it is not OF it. The kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of Jesus.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
If Christ had no interest in subduing the kingdoms of this world then a verse like that would be silly.
===== The most quoted Psalm in the N.T. is Psalm 110 =====
That psalm is about Jesus as King. I quote it here and will write again very soon about Israel's Promises that God will fulfill on Earth to them as a Nation.
I love this Psalm...
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
I serve a God of Love and Wrath and I love Him.
May God grant you every mercy. |
