I have not yet answered you on the Lord's Day being the First Day...
I can also tell you about Ezekiel.
I am glad you asked. I will get back to you on that.. Look however at Chapter 34.. concerning the "Shephard" (King) of David.
There has been no "Davidic King" from the ending of it by Nebuchadnezzar before the destruction of temple in 588 B.C.
Also very difficult verse for full preterists because it speaks of that Davidic King ruling a righteous Israel "IN THE LAND" on earth....
You need to tell me which interests you more the Change of the Sabbath to Sunday or the understanding of Ezekiel so I can do it first.
I however have chosen to answer your Heart Inquiry right now as it is late and I have not time for both.
RE>>): I am curious as to how you (or "predestination" believers) pray for someone who isn't saved or is apparently backslidden (I know, I know... if he isn't predestined, then he can't really be backslidden). <<
Wrong... truly saved people can be very backslidden! Just look at King David. He is a plain example of a man who turned his back on God and served his flesh after being saved and anointed. He became lazy and stayed home no longer going to war with the troops and Urriah's attitude surely pierced his cold heart. He was not about God's business so he was about monkey ( satan's ) business. Yet even when God killed his illegitimate we see David so confident of his election that he knew the child went to heaven:
2 Samuel 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
God judged David for his very evil sin. God sent a prophet to trick David into passing judgement upon himself..
Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
The sword never left David's Home after he had killed righteous Urriah and stolen his beautiful wife.
Absalom, another son David loved, rose up in armed rebellion to try and take the throne from David further judgement for Davids turning on his most faithful servant Urriah.
God chastises ( Spanks ) those whom he has Chosen to Love. Paul clearly states that if a man says he is saved and yet God does not do anything when that man sins then that man is not really saved.
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
If you can get away with sin then God is not your Father the devil is ! Don't experiment however that is to tempt God we all have enough sin.
Often one who is saved and in sin need true friends like the prophet sent to David to pray against them and pray for God to punish them for their sin that they may return in repentance. That is not an unkind thing to do. Just as a surgeon may take the leg to save the body we can pray for God to take the body to save the soul.
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Those who believe that men "will" themselves in and out of the Kingdom could never have the confidence to turn someone over to satan... what if they never came back :-}
Men who know the truth and yet chose to sin do not need to see anything other than Judgement here and now to frustrate their way.. God does however remind and renew to them His love even often before they repent..
Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
In Revelations when evil men are judged they blaspheme God even more. Those who are saved have the spiritual gift to bow the knee and beg for forgiveness.
Prayer is not what many think it is.
Jesus plainly states that vain repetition does nothing.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Jesus does teach however that persistence in prayer is effectual in the parable of the Unjust Judge. God however does not wear down and give in but rather blesses the one who prays by "involving" him in God's special doings.
Prayer is requesting according to our need not greed but it is intimate relation with the Lord. Look what God said concerning Abraham:
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
This is one of the Blessing Abraham was Granted ... to know what God was going to do. Yet " All the Blessings" of Abraham are continued to those who are under Christ.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
That Blessing is to truly know God. God reveals His will to those who pray through prayer. That is the Blessing many miss who are weak in prayer.
RE>>Maybe it's me, but something is lost in my prayer if for any moment I feel God MAY NOT desire the best (Him) for EVERY individual.<<
I believe that if most people were honest about their prayers when they talk theology they would admit that they do not believe God respects the will of Man.
Here is a mock-up of the prayer of the man who truly believes that God prepared the Way and it is up to each individual to choose in their flesh so they can get the spirit:
I do not intend to mock God with this pretend prayer....
Dear gOD... you know how much I love my neighbour and how I would like to see him saved. I know you have done everything you can and that it is really up to him to choose. I wish that you could do something but then you would be coming against the precious gift of "freedom you gave" all men... So I guess that without crossing the line or taking off your handcuffs you can do nothing more..so I don't know why I bother to pray I should be trying to convince my neighbour into making right choices in his dead and sinful flesh instead!
=== Now that is not fatalism but utterly fatal! ===
No even those foolish Christians who are indeed saved and yet in theology serve the "Human gOD" when they pray they go like this...
Oh God in heaven who created all things by the mere Word of thy mouth. Who indeed can turn the heart of the king. Come against the wicked one in the life of my neighbour. Dry up all the pleasures of sin in his life and plague him with the darkness of it. Give to him a spirit of repentance and cause him to see the light of your gospel and the sweetness of the gift of your own precious Son Jesus at the cross. Give him no peace until he comes to you in true repentance.
How is that Fatalism? We pray to a mighty God expecting God to answer.
He may say NO!
I think your comment concerning even the Prayer of Christ as a Man in the Garden tells it all. Unfortunately sinful flesh does not like what it tells.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine
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I want for a brief moment to tell you a story that was told to me.
There was a pastor who had a fellow come to him and ask what to do... " I am so worried I have prayed and prayed for my father and nothing seems to happen and I am getting really worried that he may not be saved."
The Pastor asked... "Is you mother alive or saved ? "
The fellow said "My mother is alive but she is not saved either."
" Do you pray also for you mother " the preacher asked.
" Well sometimes but not that often but, don't get me wrong, I do love her very very much "
Then the preacher sadly answer "Pray for them both but worry for your mother"
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I used to really struggle with the fact that God alone has the right and privilege of Saving whom He will and Damning whom He will.
2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
It sounds good on paper and then you see it in reality and it causes us to sometimes grieve over those who are perishing with whom we have grown affections.
Jesus told us not to love the World. We are called to be seperate from those who are not saved. We cannot call them brothers except they repent.
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
I really struggle with the thought that God may not save all of my children. After all Jacob and Esau were twins born into a covenant family yet God hated Esau before he was born and it was not based on anything Esau would do good or evil that God's Election would stand.
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
I finally had to bow my knee to that as well... Simply because I love them does not mean God does.
I grew from that to see that it is no shock that God hated Esau.
The shock was that God chose to love Jacob...
He was so evil, yet God made him Israel.
They were "Twins" ( same lump of clay ) same parents ( psychology )Esau was the most loved by his father and Jacob was second place. Esau was the oldest and had "lawful right" to be dedicated to the Lord. Yet it was Jacob who was granted grace in spite of Himself based solely on God's choice of Election.
In the end Jacob became the nicer of the two as Esau became bitter and hateful without God's grace....
God has chosen to call us to pray for one another.. That is after being saved. We also pray that God bless our efforts in finding the elect. God's word does what God intends. It will either harden carnal men or soften and call the elect.
I can pray for God to save men without insisting God always answer YES.
Jesus taught by example we are to pray... THY WILL BE DONE
I have grown to love God's Hate as well as His love.
When I first found out that God hated people and they could not change that no matter what they did ( They will not do don't worry ) I hated God. He still loved me though.
I found myself in this situation.....
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Jesus turned away many who had Made a "decision" to follow Him.
They upon hearing those words examined themselves and realized that the Father above had not called them.
I realized that God the Father had called me but I was furious that God was so "unfair" and that He had to love everyone cause He made them. However I knew I could not change God!
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
I could go to hell in protest but who would praise me and who would be hurt?
Then I became even as these:
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
I was beyond denying what God had shown me and that it was He who called me. He was and is the only way to be saved...
======= Lord, to whom shall we go? =======
Once you find the true God of Scripture your prayers become much more effective.
Praying through a false image of God slow things up.
Let me From the Heart tell you this... As a Christian I have prayed many prayers that I knew had " bounced off the ceiling".
Sometimes when you pray them even others can "feel it"
However there are other time when the Spirit of God just prays through you and you KNOW IT WILL BE ANSWERED because it was not you that prayed. It becomes a sharing from God on what He will do. I was blessed with one of those this very Sunday. I was to pray first and then a young fellow who just became an elder. God just powered through me so much so that the other fellow said
" What can I pray after that ! "
We all knew God has spoken to us through the use of prayer.
=== Thy will be done on earth even as it is in Heaven ===
That is the bottom line...not my will but thine....
P.S.The prince in Ezek 45:22 is not the same as the one in 34.
That is an earthly prince who would rule Israel according to God's Laws after It was restored in 516 B.C.
It may have referred to Zerubbabel who Reigned after the 70 Year captivity and the destruction of Israel and the Temple in Judah in 588-86 B.C. I do not think we can exact that King only or specifically from the Scriptures but He is not as the same King as Chapter 34 after the Davidic lineage. Also that King would have to serve while Israel was in a Righteous "mode" being returned from the Captivity and "Spirit Filled" but prior to Christ because of the Sacrificial/ Ceremonial Laws that Ezekiel added to the Mosaic Covenant being offered by that king. I can think of none other that Zerubbabel for the sacrifice was to be immediately offered upon restoring the Temple and He would have been that King. I am 99% sure but not 100% not critical really. The one to see is the King in 34.
Got to get some sleep see ya. |
