Ya know, Chuck, what really pisses me off is when people make up lies or are ready to believe lies or who quote lies as the "truth" and then use those lies to reach their preconceived prejudiced conclusions.
I am sure you will agree.
According to the transcript of the testimony of Paul Maritz FROM THE TRIAL, there was no Maritz email at the trial, No evidence presented that Paul Maritz ever made that statement, The only evidence that came close, was that Ellison or McNeally said it about Microsoft.
9 333. AND IN PARTICULAR, THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE,
10 THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF MEETINGS THAT YOU HAD AT INTEL?
11 A. CORRECT.
12 Q. AND IN THE LAST SENTENCE YOU SAY, "I NEVER SAID IN
13 THE PRESENCE OF INTEL PERSONNEL OR OTHERWISE, THAT
14 MICROSOFT WOULD CUT OFF NETSCAPE'S AIR SUPPLY OR WORDS TO
15 THAT EFFECT."
16 A. CORRECT.
17 Q. NOW, YOU SEEM PRETTY POSITIVE ABOUT THAT IN THIS
18 TESTIMONY; IS THAT FAIR?
19 A. CORRECT.
20 Q. IN FACT, IN THE NEXT PAGE YOU SUGGEST THAT THE FACT
21 THAT MR. MCGEADY SAID SOMETHING TO THE CONTRARY SHOULD GO
22 TO HIS CREDIBILITY; CORRECT?
23 A. YOU WOULD HAVE TO LET ME READ IT AGAIN.
24 I WOULD SAY IT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HIS ATTITUDE
25 AND CREDIBILITY
74
1 Q. AND I TAKE IT THAT IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY THAT IN
2 THE CONTEXT OF THAT STATEMENT WHEN YOU SAID SPEAKS
3 VOLUMES, YOU MEANT TO MEAN NOT FAVORABLE VOLUMES; WOULD
4 THAT BE FAIR?
5 A. THAT WOULD BE FAIR.
6 Q. NOW, WHEN YOUR DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN LAST OCTOBER, A
7 FEW MONTHS AGO--
8 A. CORRECT.
9 Q. --YOU WERE CONSIDERABLY LESS POSITIVE ABOUT WHETHER
10 YOU HAD SAID THIS OR NOT; CORRECT, SIR?
11 A. I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
12 Q. YOU DON'T? HAVE YOU REVIEWED YOUR DEPOSITION?
13 A. I HAVE REVIEWED MY DEPOSITION, YES.
14 Q. ABOUT THIS SUBJECT?
15 A. NOT PARTICULARLY ON THIS SUBJECT, BUT I DO REMEMBER
16 READING MY DEPOSITION TESTIMONY.
17 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
18 Q. NOW, THIS IS A DEPOSITION TAKEN OCTOBER 2, 1998; IS
19 THAT CORRECT?
20 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
21 Q. AND LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE BOTTOM OF
22 PAGE 253, AND THEN IT CONTINUES ON TO PAGE 254, AND AT THE
23 VERY BOTTOM OF PAGE 253, THE QUESTION STARTS, (READING):
24 "QUESTION: IN THE COURSE OF ANY OF YOUR
25 MEETINGS WITH INTEL, DID YOU TELL ANY OF THEI
75
1 EXECUTIVES THAT MICROSOFT WOULD CUT OFF
2 NETSCAPE'S AIR SUPPLY BY GIVING AWAY FOR FREE
3 EVERYTHING THAT NETSCAPE WAS SELLING?
4 ANSWER: I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SAYING
5 THAT.
6 QUESTION: IS IT POSSIBLE YOU SAID THAT AND
7 YOU JUST DON'T REMEMBER?
8 ANSWER: IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT I JUST DON'T
9 RECALL IT.
10 QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S--
11 ANSWER: I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S SOMETHING THAT
12 I WOULD LIKELY HAVE SAID.
13 QUESTION: IF SOMEONE FROM INTEL RECALLED
14 YOU SAYING THAT, WOULD YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE
15 WRONG ABOUT THAT RECOLLECTION?
16 ANSWER: I WOULD BE SKEPTICAL."
17 NOW, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THAT IS A
18 SOMEWHAT LESS THAN THE ABSOLUTE DENIAL THAT YOU MAKE IN
19 YOUR WRITTEN DIRECT TESTIMONY?
20 A. I BASE MY STATEMENT HERE ON TWO THINGS. ONE IS IT'S
21 MY CLEAR RECOLLECTION OF THAT MEETING. AND SECONDLY,
22 SINCE I HAD THIS DEPOSITION, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO
23 REVIEW THE THREE ACCOUNTS WRITTEN BY INTEL PERSONNEL OF
24 THAT MEETING, NONE OF WHICH MAKES ANY MENTION OF THIS
25 STATEMENT, INCLUDING MR. MCGEADY'S EIGHT OR NIN
76
1 HANDWRITTEN PAGES WHICH MAKE NO MENTION OF THAT PHRASE.
2 SO, I BASE MY CERTAINTY ON MY RECOLLECTION AND
3 HAVING REVIEWED THAT ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY.
4 Q. SO, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT BASED ON THE WORK THAT YOU
5 HAD DONE, YOUR RECOLLECTION IS MORE CERTAIN NOW THAN IT
6 WAS BACK IN OCTOBER, WHICH WAS THE QUESTION I STARTED OUT
7 WITH?
8 A. AS I SAID, I DON'T CONSIDER MY TESTIMONY BACK THEN TO
9 BE THAT INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT I'M SAYING NOW.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT, SIR. YOU ARE AWARE THAT SOME TIME AGO
11 THERE WAS A NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE THAT QUOTED YOU AS
12 SAYING THIS?
13 A. YES, I AM.
14 Q. AND THAT PRECEDED YOUR DEPOSITION, DID IT NOT, SIR?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. SO, THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP TO YOU
17 FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YOUR DEPOSITION; CORRECT?
18 A. NO, BUT AT THE TIME I DIDN'T REGARD IT AS SOMETHING
19 SERIOUS AT ALL.
20 IN FACT, FOR A LONG TIME, IT WASN'T EVEN CLEAR
21 WHO AT MICROSOFT HAD SAID THAT.
22 Q. YOU KNEW THAT FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE--
23 A. ACTUALLY, I DIDN'T KNOW FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES
24 ARTICLE THAT IT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO MYSELF. THE NEW YORK
25 TIMES ARTICLE ONLY MENTIONED MICROSOFT EXECUTIVE,
77
1 BELIEVE, AND IT WAS NOT UNTIL MUCH LATER IN THE OPENING
2 PHASES OF THIS CASE THAT IT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO MYSELF.
3 Q. BY THE OPENING PHASES OF THIS CASE?
4 A. ONCE THE DEPOSITION HAD BEEN TAKEN OF MR. MCGEADY.
5 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITHIN MICROSOFT ABOUT
6 WHO, IF ANYONE, HAD BEEN THE SOURCE OF THE SUGGESTION THAT
7 MICROSOFT WOULD CUT OFF NETSCAPE'S AIR SUPPLY AS REPORTED
8 IN THE NEW YORK TIMES?
9 A. NO.
10 Q. DID YOU, INSOFAR AS YOU'RE AWARE, ANYBODY AT
11 MICROSOFT WRITE THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYING YOU GOT IT
12 WRONG, NOBODY SAID THAT?
13 A. NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DID NOT.
14 Q. WERE YOU AWARE OF ANYONE AT MICROSOFT OTHER THAN
15 YOURSELF SAYING WHAT YOU REFER TO HERE AS WORDS TO THAT
16 EFFECT?
17 A. I'M NOT AWARE OF IT.
18 Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF QUOTATIONS ATTRIBUTED TO MR. GATES
19 AND MR. BALLMER IN VARIOUS PUBLICATIONS THAT RELATE TO THE
20 SUBJECT MATTER?
21 A. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY AS I SIT
22 HERE RIGHT NOW.
23 Q. LET ME JUST ASK YOU--
24 A. BY THE SUBJECT MATTER, I PRESUME YOU REFER TO
25 NETSCAPE'S
78
1 Q. YES.
2 A. IT'S A VERY BROAD SUBJECT, AND I'M SURE AT SOME POINT
3 IN TIME THEY BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF NETSCAPE IN THE
4 DISCUSSIONS.
5 Q. LET ME JUST PUT IN FRONT OF YOU GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT
6 7183 AND 84, ALL OF WHICH ARE IN EVIDENCE. AT LEAST THE
7 PORTIONS I'M GOING TO USE ARE IN EVIDENCE.
8 LET ME GO FIRST TO GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT 71, WHICH
9 IS A JUNE 10, 1996, FINANCIAL TIMES ARTICLE.
10 A. EXHIBIT 71. AGAIN, IS THERE A SPECIFIC PART OF THE
11 ARTICLE I SHOULD FOCUS ON?
12 Q. YES. IT'S THE FOURTH PAGE AT THE TOP, WHERE
13 MR. GATES IS QUOTE AS SAYING, QUOTE, OUR BUSINESS MODEL
14 WORKS EVEN IF ALL INTERNET EXPLORER SOFTWARE IS FREE. WE
15 ARE STILL SELLING OPERATING SYSTEMS. WHAT DOES NETSCAPE'S
16 BUSINESS MODEL LOOK LIKE IF THAT HAPPENS? NOT VERY GOOD.
17 DO YOU SEE THAT, SIR?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. WERE YOU FAMILIAR IN OR ABOUT JUNE OF 1996 THAT
20 MR. GATES HAD BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING THIS?
21 A. I DON'T RECALL THIS SPECIFICALLY, BUT AGAIN, I HAVE
22 NO REASON TO DOUBT THAT THIS WASN'T THE--THIS WAS A QUOTE
23 THAT WAS MADE IN AN ARTICLE. WHETHER HE EXACTLY USED
24 THOSE WORDS OR NOT, I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING.
25 Q. IS THIS CONSISTENT WITH MR. GATES'S VIEWS, AS YO
79
1 UNDERSTOOD THEM TO BE, IN OR ABOUT JUNE OF 1996?
2 A. YOU NEED TO GIVE ME A CHANCE NOW TO JUST READ THE
3 PARAGRAPHS BEFORE AND AFTER, SO I COULD MAKE SURE THAT I
4 UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT.
5 Q. ABSOLUTELY, AND WHEN YOU FINISHED, PLEASE LET ME
6 KNOW.
7 (WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
8 A. GO AHEAD, MR. BOIES.
9 Q. IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT MR. GATES'S VIEWS WERE,
10 AS YOU UNDERSTOOD THEM, IN 1996?
11 A. WELL, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT MR. GATES'S VIEWS
12 WERE WHEN HE WAS HAVING THIS ARTICLE--OR THIS INTERVIEW
13 BECAUSE, AS I SAID, I WASN'T THERE FOR THE INTERVIEW.
14 WHAT I BELIEVE IS HAPPENING HERE IS MR. GATES WAS REACTING
15 TO A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INDUSTRY HYPE TO THE--THAT
16 NETSCAPE WAS GOING TO BASICALLY TAKE OVER THE WORLD, AND
17 WHAT HE'S POINTING OUT HERE IS THAT MICROSOFT HAS A
18 BUSINESS MODEL THAT WORKS, WHICH IS SELLING OPERATING
19 SYSTEMS. AND IF INTERNET FEATURES ARE BUILT INTO THOSE
20 OPERATING SYSTEMS, THEN OUR BUSINESS MODEL CONTINUES TO
21 WORK.
22 AND HE'S ALSO POINTING OUT THAT NETSCAPE IS GOING
23 TO HAVE TO HAVE VALUE-ADDED SOFTWARE IN ADDITION TO BASIC
24 INTERNET SOFTWARE BECAUSE ALL OPERATING SYSTEM VENDORS,
25 INCLUDING MICROSOFT, WERE INCLUDING INTERNET SOFTWARE I
80
1 THEIR OPERATING SYSTEMS.
2 Q. HAVE YOU FINISHED?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THIS TO BE WORDS TO THE SAME EFFECT
5 AS MICROSOFT IS GOING TO CUT OFF NETSCAPE'S AIR SUPPLY?
6 A. NO, I DON'T.
7 Q. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IN ADDITION TO SAYING THAT
8 MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS MODEL WORKS, MR. GATES IS ALSO SAYING
9 THAT NETSCAPE'S BUSINESS MODEL DOES NOT WORK?
10 A. NO. WHAT HE'S POINTING OUT HERE THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE
11 A BUSINESS WHICH IS PREDICATED UPON JUST SELLING SOFTWARE
12 THAT IS UNDIFFERENTIATED. IN THE SITUATION WHERE MANY OF
13 YOUR COMPETITORS, NOT JUST MICROSOFT, BUT ALL OPERATING
14 SYSTEM VENDORS WERE GIVING AWAY BASIC INTERNET SOFTWARE,
15 THEN THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE SOME REASON FOR COMMANDING
16 CUSTOMER VALUE.
17 Q. MR. GATES DOESN'T SAY UNDIFFERENTIATED. HE SAYS
18 FREE; RIGHT, SIR? HE SAYS, "OUR BUSINESS MODEL WORKS,
19 EVEN IF ALL INTERNET SOFTWARE IS FREE. WE ARE STILL
20 SELLING OPERATING SYSTEMS. WHAT DOES NETSCAPE'S BUSINESS
21 MODEL LOOK LIKE IF THAT HAPPENS? NOT VERY GOOD." THAT'S
22 WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAYS; RIGHT?
23 A. THAT'S WHAT HE SAID HERE, AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO
24 HERE IS POINT OUT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD HIM TO MEAN HERE.
25 Q. DID YOU EVER TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS
81
1 A. I DID NOT.
2 MR. BOIES: YOUR HONOR, THIS WOULD BE A
3 CONVENIENT TIME.
4 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 10:00 TOMORROW MORNING.
5 (WHEREUPON, AT 4:31 P.M., THE HEARING WAS
6 ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., THE FOLLOWING DAY.)
_______________________________________
"...In a now infamous internal e-mail, Maritz wrote that Microsoft should
include its own browser with Windows in order to ``cut off Netscape's
air supply'', a line that was a prime exhibit in the government's case that
Microsoft abused its Windows monopoly to illegally crush its rivals. ..."
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