To apply my relative values across time (some 500 years) and across nations, seems to me silly
Relatively silly--perhaps. But definitely not silly! Your response makes it clear that for you, as for others, life is about making value judgements. How could I possibly discuss old books, old history, or old anything without attempting to reach an opinion? How could I possibly discuss the unknown future without having my opinions? Do my opinions exist outside of values? Do yours? Every thought I think, every word I speak, every deed I do, involves myriad value judgements. The book you are reading and enjoying is All about one man's value judgements on people and on history. You, yourself, passed on to me, some of Barzun's thoughts about Luther. We can not do other than apply our value judgements in every situation we encounter. In a way, these threads are like compiling a rambling book that wobbles between coherence and incoherence. I happen to believe that Luther was ill. I don't think it is funny that anyone be ill. I don't think it is a victory for anyone or anything. But I think it is extremely pertinent to the value system that acts as a guide to the lives of millions. This is why I introduced it for discussion. MOst people in the world do get their values from way way back in history.
This is a thread that goes to some very deep emotional places in people. Religious values go to the core of people's meaning. Some of the subjects are painful for some people. Some people are appalled that Luther should be praised...How dare they? Some are disgusted that he should be criticized...well of all the UNGODly acts. But as you just said: I am free to say what I relatively choose. As was Barzun, as are others. I happen to believe that debating adversarial ideas is a way of reaching synthesis and new learning. For right or for wrong, this is the way our court system seeks the truth.
I have learned plenty since coming on this thread; and I have learned because many people confronted one another with different opinions and values. Questioning my own beliefs is sometimes uncomfortable, but when I stop doing that I will be dead. I read other threads for peace and comfort. I enjoy poetry, and I enjoy quiet walks and watching Nature, including my fellow beings. But I am here for controversy and the struggle of learning. By the nature of these topics, people will be offended, including myself.
This thread also has moments of quiet learning, and just easy sharing.
As to your statement that something is not meaningless just because it is relative--precisely. Everything is relative to the observer's point of view, but the self interest of every being gives it ultimate meaning. I could not agree with you more.
You clearly have thought out your value system, and it appears to be a mix of modernity and antiquity; This leads me to presume that you have applied value judgements to books and historical persons far older than 500 years. Have a relatively nice day! (ah, come on---can I make a joke?!) <ggg> |
