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Politics : Right Wing Extremist Thread

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To: Neocon who wrote (738)1/6/2001 2:44:51 PM
From: TH  Read Replies (2) of 59480
 
Neocon,

As expected a thoughtful and well reasoned reply.

I agree that I might have a very different estimate in mind as to the impact of legalization. This is the most important cornerstone for both positions. IMO, anyone that wants drugs can get them now. The machine that makes those drugs so available is also responsible for a great deal of violence and crime. A successful crack dealer or H dealer gives a certain amount of product away in an attempt to introduce new users. I agree that some increase will result from legalization, but part of this increase will be from getting "real" numbers on the current users. Polls and statistical estimates are one thing, but "fill out the form and get your drug permit" data is another. I think there are a lot more users out there than people think.

I actually believe that drug use will be reduced by legalization. People that have incentive to advance the use of drugs will no longer have that incentive. How many people are going to just decide on the way home from work to stop and give some of that crack a try today? Zero. How many people who are exposed to that first taste of the crack pipe by someone who is motivated to grow their business, are not going to have that experience? A whole lot my friend. A very big number, and I say that because that is exactly how the problem got as large as it currently is.

My position really comes down to this. If people want to kill themselves, or just slowly get a little dumber over time, then let them. IMO, they are going to do it anyway at some point. Its like the pope saying "don't masturbate".

I think the constraints that I would require for any legalization effort would not making getting a dose of H, or even a 1/4 ounce of pot as easy as getting a fifth of Jack D. For H, coke, and any other "hard" drug, I am not advocating the "supermarket model", but a specific and controlled method of rationed distribution. For the soft drugs a limit and a tracking system (based on a drivers license number or SS perhaps) that will flag any high usage as a possible reseller.

Please keep in mind that I am not pro-drug use. I think even the soft drugs have very damaging effects. Most pot users will tell me I am dead wrong and they have suffered no ill effects, but I disagree. The effects that I have seen, albeit different, might not be any greater than alcohol. Smoke enough, for long enough, and you might not be as motivated as you once were. I do know several people who achieve much and still smoke, its just maybe they could have done more. The bottom line for me that I want to deal directly with the drug problem. Either manage it with some form of legalization or decriminalization (depending on each specific drug) or fight the drug war to win. The real cornerstone of my position is that we are not winning the war because we really don't want to win it.

As for the relative pricing of drugs I would counter your point in that if you make the drugs higher in cost then you require not more crime from the user to gain funds, but higher levels of crime. If a user can't pay for his crank or crack with 8 stereos then maybe its time to get cash at gunpoint. You can't reason with a crackhead. I've tried and I've lost.

I strongly disagree that crack was a marketing ploy. Crack was the light bulb. The most addictive drug known to man made more addictive by removing it from its base and reducing the duration of time to reach effect while increasing the intensity of that effect tenfold. A new and completely different product. It has been said that no human experience can come close to equaling it.

The costs for social issues are offset. Thousands of government employees are no longer needed. Prison requirements stop increasing on an annual basis. Hundreds of lives are saved from removing the violence related to the distribution of drugs. This includes police, drug enforcement personnel, innocents, and of course those actually involved in the drug trade.

As for social chaos, well what do we have today? We have widespread drug use that has no end in sight. Its all considered "managed and tolerable" by society, but its still there.

Your statement, "The question is, is it easier or harder for pushers to operate under conditions of legalization?" confuses me. If you legalize there are no pushers. I don't see anyone pushing alcohol or cigarettes on a personal level. Remove the return for pushing drugs and you remove the incentive. Do you think that legalization will just redirect the pushers into intensely focusing on children as they will represent the only market left for them? I don't agree, and part of any legalization would require at least a percentage of police and drug enforcement personnel currently fighting the local and global drug war to be reassigned to protecting children. At least there we could measure the result and claim some victory. Free up the prison space and there will be room to house any and all, for life without parole with no exceptions, for any and all sale of any kind by any means to children. After joe average reads in the paper than his nice neighbor, Mr. Woosley, is doing hard time for life because he picked up a 1/4 ounce of Dursban Poison for some local high school kids (while he was getting his milk and bread) and the interest in taking that risk will quickly evaporate. It means really enforcing the law, something we as a society have not been too good at in regards to the drug war.

Spend enormous sums educating children. It is the ONLY way we are going to win anyway. The money is there. The biggest problem will be what to do with the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting the drug war. Finding a new place for them in our labor force will be a challenge.

A very basic difference in why I see distribution as the trump card is that when there is large money to be made then a way will be found. Money is the root here, not drugs. Kill the root and then manage the branches.

I cannot label the child killed by stray banger's bullet as tolerable. The very basic problem is that our machine to fight can't fight and win. They don't want to win, its good business.

HAGO

TH
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