This is my reply to the following post:
Message 15218560
Manipulation: After my exchange with LPS5, I decided it seemed as if he had silenced me with his post.
You didn't decide anything, LG - I did silence you. Among other reasons, because you still did not describe how you "think like a criminal" when trading, as I predicted you would not. I'll address that example of cowardice later, but first - the message at hand.
Anyone can repost messages, as you did below, from the NASDR, the SEC, and the like; a piker, however, will in one breath suggest that the regulators are part and parcel to this widespread manipulation "permeating" the markets "at all levels"...while simultaneously quoting their reports and website information to support their position!
A little inconsistent, don't you think?
After all he works in the business and knows all. I am but a individual investors and could not possible know what I am talking about. Nor could I possible offer up any prove that manipulation exist.
Where in my post did I claim that I "know all"? Since I've posted my message, I've also been accused of saying that Wall Street is "clean," exhibits "purity," and that I know all.
Re-read my message. Not only did I say that no one but the traders themselves - not you, not I, nor anyone else have any way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes, I also noted that Wall Street has plenty of wrongdoing, particularly - IMHO - with regard to the actions of securities analysts and stockbrokers. And, that in smaller issues, manipulation is more common than in larger issues.
Here is a link to my original message, so that those just joining can follow along.
Message 15216454
Pardon me while I pause to “laugh out loud.”
I'm not sure why you posted that in quotes, but, alright. Let me know when you're done.
Please see below just a few examples on public record of manipulation. In addition some of the links go into much more in depth analysis about manipulation and give additional example, providing much more information than the headline may suggest.
The below examples shine a light on the iceberg of manipulation that exist.
If by using the iceberg analogy you are suggesting there is more wrongdoing, manipulation, and the like in the markets than is seen, well, of course. How could anyone, how could I, argue with that? I couldn't, and I haven't.
In any large network of individuals, organizations, and systems, there's always more going on behind the scenes than can be seen.
My contention is, for the umpteenth time, not that there is no manipulation, that everyone operates above board or that Wall Street is clean in any way.
My contention is that there is no grand conspiracy, and that in fact manipulation is the exception and not the rule.
But the light catches only a small portion of the tip of the iceberg. As we all know, the tip is what we see and know about, the vast majority of the iceberg lies beneath the water hidden and concealed.
By saying "[a]s well all know," you're suggesting that your opinion is everyone's. First of all, that's a typical message board tactic: support through passive enlistment. (I'm wondering if this is how a religion starts.)
Second of all, LG...and I know this hurts, just like it did when I broke it to you that you're not omniscient...just because you state something doesn't make it so. As I indicated in my last message, having Level II gives you a single, solitary knothole through which to see the actions - more over the actions you are permitted to see - of one trader. For any firm that has more than a dealing desk - which is pretty frequent, as the dealing desk(s) are typically added after infrastructure is in place, not initially - there is no way, no way at all, to read the actions or intent of the trader beyond a large degree of uncertainty.
Sorry. The truth hurts. :)
I will drop the subject now!
Of course, you'll try to- just like telling George Cole that it would take you lots of time and several pages to answer his question about your inane "think like a criminal" adage and your first attempt to push my message aside by simply stating, "Market manipulation exists, it permeates the market at all levels."
Wow. I guess I can't argue with that kind of evidence & reasoning, can I? LOL.
I also believe that your rush to bring Tony into the mix underscores the fear: that you need to get help, cut your losses, and run, trying to hastily bury the discourse as you've lost credit already.
But no, it's not over yet. You can't ban me from your thread and then post messages about me or addressing me. You're a coward, LG.
Regards,
LG
See the Following Attachments:
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The report was prepared by Robert W. Lowry whose experience includes more
than 28 years with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC),
including 23 years with the Division of Market Regulation. Mr. Lowry has
conducted investigations into broker dealer trading activities and market
manipulation. He has also given expert witness testimony in federal court
relating to matters of market manipulation.
Lowry's conclusion is that ``the price decline in DynaMotive stock does
not reflect the operation of free economic forces of supply and demand.'' The
report also indicates that a short selling scheme orchestrated by certain CD
holders is the most likely cause for the price decline. It goes on to say that
``the NASDAQ trading volume reflects either pre-arranged or circular trading
by market makers...and...that a pattern of this type of trading is consistent
with market manipulation.''
theautochannel.com.
SEC Investigation Cites 30 Market Makers For Fraud
Market maker manipulation is not just conjecture, no matter how
MMs try to hide their activities. The SEC investigated and charged 30
of them with fraud and violations of the Act.
willywizard.com
Market Maker Manipulation
stopmmmanipulation.com
In a high-profile case that first drew big media headlines last February, a New York brokerage firm and a ring of eight brokers on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange were charged with perpetrating a scheme in which they made over $11.1 million in illegal profits and at the same time covered their tracks with an elaborate fraud.
Floor brokers generally are not allowed to trade for their own accounts because their first-line knowledge of what is happening on the market gives them an unfair advantage over the public. Enforcement authorities allege that these brokers colluded with the brokerage firm to buy and sell for the firm's account, with the owners of the firm falsifying the records after the fact to make it seem as if it was the firm that placed the orders. The brokers received 70% of the profits; the brokerage, 30. According to press reports, it was the first time federal prosecutors ever brought charges against anyone executing trades on the actual floor of the exchange.
Later, in May, the owners of the firm and five of the floor brokers were also charged with "front-running" – buying and selling for their own accounts before executing orders they had from customers for the same securities. Front-running is illegal because when a floor broker trades for his own account first, he may not obtain as favorable a price for his customer. But more seriously, when he receives a large customer order to buy or sell, he knows that the size of the transaction itself may well affect the price of the stock. If he trades for his own account with the benefit of that inside knowledge, he is breaking both the rules of the stock exchange and the federal securities laws.
sec.gov
In 1999, Enforcement Department of the Office investigated 50 cases, most of which were related to unfair securities trading practices, i.e. market manipulating and insider trading. Furthermore, Enforcement Department investigated 27 cases on unfair securities trading practices and business take-overs referred by the SET of which 18 cases were received during the year.
sec.or.th
Securities Regulation and the Internet @CyberSecuritiesLaw™
cybersecuritieslaw.com
CUSTOMERS OF A.R. BARON & COMPANY SUE BEAR, STEARNS & COMPANY, INC. FOR STOCK MANIPULATION.
glrs.com
Market Maker Manipulation
digitaltraders.com
Nasdaq Market-Makers Antitrust Litigation
nasdaqlitigation.com
THE MOB ON WALL STREET--PART 1
businessweek.com
4 Things You Should Know About Market Manipulation on NASDAQ
farrelltrading.com
BLATANT & OBSCENE STOCK MARKET MANIPULATION!
gold-eagle.com
Stock "Manipulation" and "Inflated" Prices
capitalismmagazine.com
Essential reading - the deadly art of stock manipulation...
netbored.com
Harrison Digicom Says Investigation Revealed Stock Manipulation by Off Shore Brokerage Firm
martcom.net
Securities Class Action Clearing House
securities.stanford.edu;
****
Again. I did not deny or refute that manipulation exists and that wrongdoing occurs on Wall Street as it does elsewhere. Rather I laugh and refute, and continue to refute, that there is any form of grand, organized conspiracy or that manipulation is widespread in any way form. With regard to your above posts, well, let me make a few points.
1. Again: if you're claiming that there is a conspiracy, and if you're suggesting that it is so widespread that involves the regulators, why would you reference their websites?
2. Among the sites you reference above are "stopmmmanipulation.com;" "www.goldeagle.com," "www.farrelltrading.com;" and a site whose path ends at "mmgames." One references an off-shore broker. Thats the best you can do?
Magazine articles, personal websites, and Raging Bull denizen-sponsored pages, to indicate a force that "permeates" the markets "at all levels"?
Wow, LG. You don't need me to make a fool of you, you're perfectly capable of making one of yourself. In the future, stick with www.nasdr.com and www.sec.gov - you won't look like a piker, and the validity...well, unless you believe in a conspiracy that the regulators are "aiding and abetting"...is solid.
It reminds me of another resentful stock hobbyist who, to verify some inane point about short selling, referenced an editorial in the Over The Counter News Network...LOL. Really taught me a lesson, I'll tell ya ;)
Market manipulation exists. It is not prevalent; it is the exception, and not the rule across the 5,000 securities firms and various stock exchanges and market centers. Nor is there any grand conspiracy.
Take care, pal. Hope to hear from you soon.
LPS5 |
