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GDXJ 93.98+0.6%Nov 21 4:00 PM EST

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To: long-gone who wrote (67837)4/19/2001 1:16:36 AM
From: E. Charters  Read Replies (2) of 116764
 
Well the US invented HUD and helmet HUD at that. So the news story is fictional of course. You won't get the technical truth from a news story and don't hold your breath for an expert in defense to tell you the straight goods. I am not sure that helmet HUD is that safe or that much of an advantage. Chinese pilots must ask for permission to fire on foreign aircraft anyway. Speed and superior technology is not the issue here. Politics appears to be.

It is no secret however that the Sukhois employ very advanced technology and fly higher and faster than the comparable US planes. This was long a Russian advantage even the venerable MIG-29 which could reach 80,000, far above any US planes ceiling wihout rocket assist. The Russian aircraft are also generally more stable and better fliers, though usually much abbreviated in range. Their missile systems are somewhat less capable than US Phoenix of latest generation however, but still deadly especially at short range. (The Chinese F-8 shown in file photos is basically a copy of the old AV-Roe Arrow of 1958 Can-Brit design. Good spy work, Chow-Lin)

If you follow the aircraft military shows you would know that the latest Russian jets are highly vector thrust, partially stealth, remote airfield capable, HUD helmet fire and extremely missile defense capable, at least as good the latest good NATO theatre land based craft. This is one generation and basic better capabilities than any carrier based craft. So the news story is right for the wrong reasons, the latest land based aircraft are superior in many ways to a carrier based jet, mano a mano. And if the Chinese have the latest Chzech. Tamara radar on land, (A given almost) our stealth technology is not much advantage.

Sounds like administrations propaganda to keep defense dollars coming into the coffer, though. It's an old trick.

But ...
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We often get lied to about our technology. In Korea our F-86 was a poor comparison to the MIG. The MIG could fly circles around it and often shot it down. The kill ratios we got told about were fiction for the US public. The North Koreans with Russian pilots won that one, shooting down 4 US planes to one MIG. And that is why the DMZ is where it is in Korea today. We held our own by aircraft carrier logistics alone it appears. Same thing with Vietnam. The F-4 was stodgy piece of crap. It was easily shot down by ground fire by Russian radar AA systems including a radar system that guided trench based rifle men, the supposed mass fire 'optical' system the Viets used. The f-4 was outclassed by the Russian fighters in that theatre too. So the US develped the warthog, harm anti radar missiles, stand off fire Phoenix systems and napalm laser-guided bombs. The crash course in weapons development since Vietnam resulted in theatre weapons and triple tier radar techniques that would overcome the before-last generation Russian stuff as we saw in the Gulf war. But the latest stuff? We are guessing ain't we?

All aircraft in all wars are platforms for electronic tit for tat development as the war progresses. In WWII the Germans had television wire line guided missiles that could shoot bombers down from 6 miles, air to ground radar guided anti-ship cruise missiles, infrared detection and fire control, radar absorbing stealth submarines, wire line torpdoes, radar guided mid range cruise missiles, mag tape based psueduo random noise unjammable radar, ICBM's (A-4) and many other scary things. We had to scramble to keep ahead? of them. If it weren't for Hitler and some of his spectacular mistakes, I swear we could be speaking German today, mien herr. Imagine if he had not trusted the enigma code machine and put everything into developing jet bombers, jet fighters and underground fuel refineries! But finally to have beat the Russians the German generals should have been forced to stand outside at 40 below all night long with the soldier's standard synthetic winter gear and in the morning start a Panther tank that been off all night. That would have cancelled the Russian invasion right there. No go, Fritz.

Logistics defeated them too. Basically the States just adopted the German technology and did not change it much till the 60's. The Honest John, Redstone Rocket, the wire line missile, DEW line radar, F-86 were just direct lifts of German weapons with very little redesign. The Redstone was an actual captured V-2 unchanged in fact. We even used mostly German engineers to design them and work on the bases. Von Braun wasn't the only convert.

We don't really have any military technology training per se and the best ideas will never get into the military as we don't encourage creative businesses to compete to supply new tech. It is all large scale theft and graft with the the Gulf&W's and IBM's and their petty corrupt pecking orders supplying all the tech. If the engineers were creative thinkers and had the stuff to dream up necessary solutions to what are actually secret problems they could not keep their jobs at those old boy organizations for one minute.

The installed base of expensive second level technology that is the Western model of defense advancement may not beat more agile nations who are not tied to fixed inventories of ageing military equipment.

Lotsa money however is one part of the winning equation. Corruption and a police state (you are living in one.) are another not too surprising part. Skillful propaganda it seems is another necessary too. (The best propaganda is the US stuff. Also a lift of the best German stuff. The America First campaign of the 30's was lifted by one of our former enemies in Europe, (now a US econo-bootlicker). He was told he could not use it as he was a racist pig dog or something like that. They should have told him that they had copyright on self righteous subtly mono-cultural propaganda and only US good guys could use it.

I think the missile that will defeat the Chinese is the Coca-Cola missile. One generation of western life style and
and we could send over G.I. uniforms and our latest technology and stay at home and watch television. At least we would know what they had and how to defeat it easily. (Just make a deal to use the Russian stuff as they will have knocked themselves out trying to overcome it for 20 years, and yes, they will have the plans, no need to share on purpose.) An additional trick would be to dress up all our wall street brokers, divorce lawyers and drug dealers and send them over too. Nothing like a little social and economic chaos to keep them off balance. Just imagine 400 million Chinese single mothers on drugs. I think that would do it.

Come to think of it why doesn't Canada buy Sukhois instead of obsolete US stuff with manuals printed in French?

EC<:-}
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