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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank

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To: Broken_Clock who wrote (13612)5/17/2001 9:19:29 AM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) of 82486
 
<<But the methodology of reasoned thought has
provided a workable way for people to improve the quality of their lives--to
bring greater happiness and less suffering--unfortunately, not to all.>>

I seriously doubt you can prove this statement.

If you mean, prove this statement to you, then we are in agreement. Your standards of "proof" are not only particular to you, but they are also subject to your amendment--even for reasons so insubstantial as mischief, which I include only to demonstrate that anyone can refuse to be shown. You may, however, be able to prove the statement to yourself.

First, it needs to be clear that my "methodology of reasoned thought" has a natural opposite--that being unreasoned thought. The comparison being implied is not between reason and perfection; nor is it between reason and activities of the past.

Perhaps you can show an example of reasonable thinking displacing an example of unreasonable thinking, to the effect that the quality of life suffers thereby? For example, did the tractor and disker replacing the pointed stick improve the quality of life? It is not likely that you have spent the greater part of your life trying to secure a food supply with a pointed stick and a bag of seeds, but you could discover how it is by reading how it was...or by catching a plane. The beauty of the examples of reasonable vs. unreasonable thinking is that they exist side by side on this planet of ours. We can look directly into the past of the mind--and perhaps into the future.

What did penicillin, quinine, etc. DISPLACE that was so necessary to human happiness? What was so bracing and robust about the dead and dying being signed over by the superstitious and the irrational? You can look into this; catch a plane.

You could go on and on if you wished to.

You asked if "science and logic had any impact(towards curing) on these plagues?"--referring to poverty, war, etc. Well, the answer is YES! Science and logic have had a remarkable impact on these problems. Catch a plane to parts of the world where science and logic have little application to the common man. Do you see poverty? Murder? Injustice? Disease? What is the life expectancy? Are the majority happy?

Did Hawaii become a state because the idea of a thoughtful and reasonable Constitution was anathema to any notion of happiness?

The twentieth centuy was well represented by madmen and fools. I don't call those reasonable people, and I have my reasons.

Back to my original statement: If you read it carefully, you will see that it claims far less than what reasonable people would likely concede to. It simply claims that reasoned thought provides a method for improving life. One sucessful example involving as few as two people would satisfy the proof of the statement.

Reasoned thinking has allowed people to control their environment so as to benefit their lives. Where in all of our history do you find people benefitting from their ignorance, stupidity, or superstitious manner of "thinking"? I am quite willing to consider a natural converse to the statement which you were (mildly) objecting to. But where is the beef? Simply show me one or two examples of halcyon bliss attaching to people being overwhelmed by their environment. If it is in the OT, I will go there with you. If it is in the Inquisition, I will go there with you. If it is in the suffering and the dying of the poor, the diseased, and the broken--we will go. What is it that reason has displaced in the REAL world that you are expressing this sense of regret for? Most of the world is still in warfare, abject poverty, disease, and turmoil. What tools do you suggest we hand them as an alternative to the logical method of testing for truth? What will allow them to fight back against a hostile environment, and to obtain food, shelter, medicine, and LIFE? Shall we teach them to pray or to think? Supernatural intervention or education? I'm only asking.
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