Oh we're back to the island are we?
Interesting, how do you reach a conclusion like that?
This island thing has gotten confusing because Solon elaborated. All I ever said about my island was that it included all the on-record non-believers hereabouts and that we would find a way to get along without benefit of a deity. I specified the names: X, Solon, Cosmic, toscano, E, James, Thames, Steven, and me. (Once again, I hope I haven't missed anyone.) To the very best of my knowledge, all of us are chronological adults. Ergo, a law against child abuse is pointless. That's how I draw that conclusion. (I thought you would bite and I couldn't resist.)
Forgive me for saying this, but this island thing almost sounds like what was attempted by Germany in the thirties and forties.
You have a vivid imagination. We're just a bunch of castaways trying to get by.
That's not the issue. What is at issue is the existence of objective, transcendent, moral standards. That's what seems to be the real stumbling block here.
Yes, that's the stumbling block. What's at issue is that your standards need to come from a supernatural being to be valid and mine are valid when the citizenry accepts them. Mine exist just as yours do. People follow yours because they want to please God or fear Hell. People follow mine because they feel invested in them because they own them and because it's in their interest to do so. I don't understand why standards that are created by humans can't be valid for you.
we all know certain things are wrong, yet we do them anyway.
Is that what this is all about? Do you think people won't do the right thing without God. One day last week when I went to the pool, the gate keeper wasn't there. I waited for a minute, looked around for him, then went in. When I came out, I gave him my eight bucks. I didn't have to. No one would have known. But it wouldn't have been right. So I paid. God had nothing to do with that transaction. Perhaps we just have different experiences about whether people are basically good or not.
One thing I learned as a manager is that people tend to live up or down to your expectations so why not expect the best.
Karen |
