You know gold_tutor, I dash off what is basically a one liner without thinking that even someone of your prodigious talent could misinterpret it to the extent that you have. I see that despite your name change you haven't lost your touch a bit ...same ole same Ole. I remarked once before that consistency seemed to be your strong suit...with me anyway, your reputation is intact.
If you TRULY believe that "meter control at the individual home" >>is under control of the end user,<< ...I do not.
i.e., the homeowner, you are sadly mistaken....Apparently not
The meter belongs to the utility company supplying the power....No kidding, you think I missed that huh.
If they bear the cost of purchase and installation of ELON networked metering as in Enel's case study, ...Enel is a lot more than a case study.
at what point does the "control revert to the end user, i.e., the homeowner, consumer of the electricity?"
This must be where you got confused. When I said “by giving control to the end user” it was a shorthand way of saying “enabling customers to manage whatever tiny tidbit of their consumption that the Utility deems appropriate (ie financially sound), to let them manage. I understand that for the most part, as of now, the Utilities essentially own their customers because they have absolute control over the juice without which we cannot live life as we know it. I was not suggesting that they have had a crisis of the soul and as penance have condemned themselves to benevolence, that they are somehow happily turning over complete control to their customers or that Lonworks even enables this. Lonworks provides granularity, to both the service provider, and to the extent that the service provider allows, to their customers. The idea being that this enables the creation of new differentiated services that monetize the value of the information. Look see, some bafflegarb just for you - btw, “bafflegarb”, great word...did you make it up? These releases explain the kinds of services I’m alluding to - they do talk quite a bit about homeowners controlling their electricity consumption, so be warned you may take exception to what these companies are saying.
newpower.com
newpower.com
Of course the Utilities are going to use this to their benefit, the ultimately reason for implementing Lonworks is to improve their bottom line...that’s what business is all about isn’t it. This is not some dot bomb pie in the sky fantasy, there is a real business case here. With Lonworks the Service Providers can migrate whatever portion of the network intelligence, they see fit, to the edge of the network, to their customers, and the only reason they would bother doing this is because the biggest killer app in our society is “Saving Money”. Now if it makes a customer happy to save a few bucks every month, and it makes a Utility happy, that’s called completion of the value chain, despite the fact that of the total savings achieved through the system only a small portion is passed on to the end user.
[The solution to power shortage is NOT in regulating demand entirely...it HAS to be also coupled with an increase in supply. ...Indeed, who am I to argue with such reasoning.
And in case you haven't notice, the sun is free....Thanks for pointing that out, I nearly forgot. Solar is very cool ...more power to you, seriously.
I guess I missed that part about end user control of the ENEL meter in Italy project
You missed nothing, in it’s current format there is no “end user control” in the Enel project as it stands today. I do believe that end users will however have the option to receive a discount on their bill if they allow Enel to fiddle with their power supply at certain times of day or night. Both companies have indicated that “end user control” may be introduced at a later stage.
This is Not a discussion regarding increasing electrical supply one iota, Spiral3. It is about controlling supposedly finite supply by other than the end user.
with all due respect end users never control the supply of anything, they are the demand side of the equation, at least they still were when I last looked even if it is a new economy...not quite sure what you’re saying here.
I can't believe you actually penned those sadly mistaken concept words! You seemed much more intelligent than that up to now...WOW!
Actually I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but if not, sorry to disappoint you...you know the old saw...never put anyone on a pedestal because you’re bound to be disappointed.
I certainly hope all your students were listening. Is it time for you to go wake up Unca Wes and bring him into the discussion to enlighten us all about how ELON is going to provide increased supplies of an insatiable consumable?
Firstly wrt the student part - cut it out, I am one myself and have made that quite clear in past posts...hell I’m so green I thought I might learn something from you. Secondly wrt to unclewest, he is a soldier and a gentleman, and I’m sure that he, unlike me, has learned to pick his fights. Perhaps if you were capable of having a normal conversation he’d be more interested in sharing his views with you, but I doubt it.
The consumer is in control NOW, more than they will be... ...How so?
after ELON gets all the utility companies to use their technology in the at the home site metering....gee that sounds pretty bullish coming from you.
Do you even know the principle behind the concept of "metering" and/or electrical meters?...Yes
These are not analog reporting devices alone, Spiral3, their sole purpose is to regulate usage.
This is so logically inconsistent that it fried my brain...got aspirin?
You even contributed heavily to an earlier discussion about how ELON was able to make use of current technology from the "pole" bi-directionally to the utility and back to the home as I recall.
You recall wrong, I posted some bafflegarb from the elon site but did not make a heavy contribution...as I’ve said many times I’m not a tech person
I'll tell you something else...for those of you who think intelligent dishwashers and intelligent hotwater heaters and intelligent washers and dryers and intelligent vacuum cleaners and toasters and alarm systems are going to be so easily manipulated as to make a household run perfectly, just wait until the little missus tries to set her washer and dishwasher usage for the same cool part of the morning when extracting the humidity from the home is not such a drain on the alloted air-conditioning minutes to your household---AT THE SAME TIME YOU WANT THE HOT WATER FOR A SHOWER & SHAVE.
yeah, and then what? ...I’ll tell you something else...one of the reasons that the Scandinavian countries made such a good testing ground for Lonworks, and are so interested in Lonworks is the fact that the relative load stress experienced by Utilities when everyone comes home from work and turns on the Sauna is simply Massive and was considered to be an excellent test of robustness and reliability. Lonworks passed with flying colors. I’m confident that whoever packages these next generation services will do so with just your concerns in mind...in fact one of the reasons for distributing intelligence across the power network is precisely to reduce the load problems you fear. Who should I believe Elon, Enel, Cisco and Sun...or you. I’m afraid you are really reaching here...somehow, something seems to be beyond your grasp. From where do you get the idea of alloted air-conditioning minutes...are you aware of tests whereby “air conditioning minutes” were rationed in this way.
Glad I still live in the real world. Well, I guess you’re entitled to your opinion.
You might try managing the laundry, dishwasher and air conditioning "energy allotment" for about, oh, let's say 6 weeks straight,
6 weeks would be a breeze I’ve been doing it all my adult life. Unwittingly though you did touch on an important concept, the client interface,but one for which I’ve neither the time nor the inclination to go into right now.
and see just how you plan to share and share alike with your equal partner wife who does your skidmark unders, stinky socks and ring around the collar Lucky golf or bowling shirt every week without as much as a whimper!~!!!~~
Let me just say that when I first got your post I read the first paragraph and “put it away for later”. I have just now read it in it’s entirety and I have to say that whatever your pathology, please, get it seen to immediately. Your lies about my posting history, (not the first time), are one thing, it’s the cost of doing business with you, but mocking of and condescension towards my family, is something that I will not ignore. Your personal attacks reveal a vile mind. Apologize for that, which you can do by PM if you wish, so as not to besmirch your public record, or I will report a tou violation, not only for this but for the previous time as well where my challenge to you to back up your bald faced lies with links to the posts you claimed I had made, went unanswered.
Yeah, right...end user gets control with ELON networked utility meters attached to the OUTSIDE of the home.
Yeah, right. ROFLMAO Oh, and one more thing...if the control is totally to revert to the homeowner/ultimate consumer, then why is the electrical meter place on the OUTSIDE of the home instead of where the homeowner can conveniently get at it and reattach it at will if the power company decides to brown-out that day?
Look, I never said that the control is totally to revert to the homeowner/ultimate consumer...I hope I’ve clarified this for you. Besides they’re on the outside because they’re ugly and that’s where the dogs are that bite the guys who come to read them. About the last thing I am ever going to try to do on the domestic front is to reattach my electric meter, whatever that means...it would be far easier, albeit messier, to just shoot myself in the head which you might think is quite a good idea. It really doesn’t make any difference where the meter is, if all goes according to plan, and of course there are no guarantees, Lonworks users will be able to access their “meter” from anywhere, anyplace, anytime.
Man, you're a corker!
That really took me by surprise, I had to look it up- is this a compliment? Now I’m really confused.
Main Entry: cork·er
Pronunciation: 'kor-k&r
Function: noun
Date: 1881
1 : one that corks containers (as bottles)
2 : one that is excellent or remarkable
m-w.com
The only reason I responded to you in the first place is that I thought it might stimulate some interesting conversation. I once suspected that you had the intelligence to do this and I am always keen to find out what “the other side”, so to speak, has to say. Either I was plain wrong or else it’s something that you flat out refuse to use. |
