Late editing addition at the bottom...
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"I believe the goal of separation of Church and state is a laudable one, although practically it has failed, because it is impossible to split a child in two without killing it"
Holy Father of Satan. I cannot believe the ridiculous remarks that you dredge out of that thing. Certainly, Greg: splitting "a child in two" is soooo LAUDABLE, isn't it?! But as a PRACTICAL matter...
Sometimes, I cannot even laugh at your sillicisms.
If you believe that the Church and state are one entity, then you are mixed up. There are myriad religions, and it is the wall between the hand and the glove of their relationship (with the state) which is the point.
Obviously, there can be no true freedom of religion if any particular religion is allowed to govern. Thus, in a place like Afghanistan, we find that there is no freedom of religion--and thus no freedom of thought--the very basis of human rights.
Your idea that people become entrenched as atheists unless they are forced to be a particular religion, is one of the most inane statements I have ever heard from you--and that is saying a great deal.
Your responses lead me to believe that you truly do not grasp the idea, or the point, of separating the thoughts of individuals from the control of the state. I will give you 2 or 3 quotes to struggle with. That is all I can do for you, I'm afraid. I must simply shake my head once again: Splitting the child in two is "laudable"--but a practical failure because it would kill the child. Laudable, Greg? Indeed!
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." --Jefferson
"Is conformity of sentiments in matters of religion essential to the happiness of civil government? Not at all. Government has no more to do with the religious opinions of men than it has with the principles of the mathematics. Let every man speak freely without fear--maintain the principles that he believes--worship according to his own faith, either one God, three Gods, no God, or twenty Gods; and let government protect him in so doing, i.e., see that he meets with no personal abuse or loss of property for his religious opinions. Instead of discouraging him with proscriptions, fines, confiscation or death, let him be encouraged, as a free man, to bring forth his arguments and maintain his points with all boldness; then if his doctrine is false it will be confuted, and if it is true (though ever so novel) let others credit it. When every man has this liberty what can he wish for more? A liberal man asks for nothing more of government." --John Leland
"Twelve centuries of moral and political darkness, in which Europe was involved, had nearly completed the destruction of human dignity, and every thing valuable or ornamental in the character of man. During this long and doleful night of ignorance, slavery, and superstition, Christianity reigned triumphant; its doctrines and divinity were not called in question. The power of the Pope, the Clergy, and the Church were omnipotent; nothing could restrain their frenzy, nothing could control the cruelty of their fanaticism; with mad enthusiasm they set on foot the most bloody and terrific crusades, the object of which was to recover the Holy Land. Seven hundred thousand men are said to have perished in the two first expeditions, which had been thus commenced and carried on by the pious zeal of the Christian church, and in the total amount, several millions were found numbered with the dead: the awful effects of religious fanaticism presuming upon the aid of heaven. It was then that man lost all his dignity, and sunk to the condition of a brute; it was then that intellect received a deadly blow, from which it did not recover until the fifteenth century. From that time to the present, the progress of knowledge has been constantly accelerated; independence of mind has been asserted, and opposing obstacles have been gradually diminished. The church has resigned a part of her power, the better to retain the remainder; civil tyranny has been shaken to its centre in both hemispheres; the malignity of superstition is abating, and every species of quackery, imposture, and imposition, are yielding to the light and power of science. An awful contest has commenced, which must terminate in the destruction of thrones and civil despotism; in the annihilation of ecclesiastical pride and domination.... Church and State may unite to form an insurmountable barrier against the extension of thought, the moral progress of nations, and the felicity of nature; but let it be recollected, that the guarantee for moral and political emancipation is already deposited in the archives of every school and college, and in the mind of every cultivated and enlightened man of all countries. It will henceforth be a vain and fruitless attempt to reduce the earth to that state of slavery of which the history of former ages has furnished such an awful picture. The crimes of ecclesiastical despots are still corroding upon the very vitals of human society; the severities of civil power will never be forgotten." --Elihu Palmer
I will add this, by edit:
"I believe in an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be a Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him." John F. Kennedy |
