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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: Rick Julian who wrote (3176)10/7/2001 1:26:11 AM
From: Hawkmoon  Read Replies (2) of 281500
 
Karma... A nuclear war is not about to happen... For one, the nations with the primary arsenals of them are effectively on the same side of this fight... I certainly don't see the US and Russia flinging them at one another.

Secondly... a nuclear bomb is nothing more than VERY big bomb... The devastation that would result would be tremendous, of course, but it's not about to end the world as we know it. People are living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki right now.. and that stands as stark evidence of the recuperative powers of a nation to endure a nuclear attack.

It's just like this hype we're seeing over Anthrax and chemical weapons... Sure, they can kill lots of people but they won't be the end of the world either. (between 20 and 40 million people died from the Spanish Flu pandemic in 1918-1919 alone..).

WHAT IS AT STAKE is the ability for democratic nations to feel safe and secure enough to enjoy the fruits of their liberty. And I don't particularly care how many muslim extremists we have to elimiate to accomplish a return to that status. (and given that I'm in the DC area, I'm just as much a target as the next person).

Civilization is a chosen state of being. Being "civilized" means we deliberately choose to show restraint and to limit our reaction, just as a person might restrain himself if he gets "pushed and shoved" or even slapped.

But when faced with utter uncivilized behavior, and death threats that are being carried out on a massive scale, one has no choice but to drop the veneer of pacifistic behavior and decide whether they are going to "turn the other cheek" and provoke another attack, or fight back with every means possible to prevent suffering further injury. It's like I was always taught... if someone forces you into a fist fight, find a 2x4 and soundly thrash them until they don't feel inclined to provoke you again.

We know this OBL that ordered this attack. We know that the Taliban are a front for OBL's people and that HE is the real power in Afghanistan. Muhammed Omar, head of the Taliban, is married to his daughter, so we know that they have ties to OBL that extend beyond just "protection".. We know that OBL is married to Sheik Turabi's neice, so there's a connection to extremist groups operating against Egypt from Sudan. Thus, there is convincing evidence that this is a state upon state attack which warrants a declaration of war against Afghanistan (if only to be legally proper about what we're about to unleash upon them)..

And sure, there are innocent civilians in the way... This is the unfortunate consequence of war and I KNOW we'll attempt to limit civilian casualities to the greatest extent possible. But I also know, like was true with Germany and Japan, that the Afghan people will never be free unless the US takes its retribution to the ultimate result, namely victory and the downfall of the Taliban and death/surrender of OBL (he won't permit himself to be taken alive, I'm sure).

And I'm not concerned about his friends anymore than I would have been about Spain and Turkey entering WWII on the Axis side. If they do, they do... and they will share the same fate as the Taliban and OBL.

This is a brutal business Karma... No one wants war.. but it has been FORCED UPON US by this attack against US civilians. It's by the grace of god that only 6,000 people died, and not 20,000 (15,000 people escaped).

What I know is that if nuclear weapons are used, we know which nations have such technology and they know they will suffer retaliation (god forbid such a scenario).. They don't want to provoke a nuclear response because they know the US will send them all to see Allah FAR earlier than they had anticipated. The wealthy ringleaders who might be supportive of OBL really doesn't want to die. OBL is only a tool to accomplish their goals of asserting power over the moderate muslim governments. But they know they can't win in a knock-down slugout with the US.

But they CAN make us afraid... and make us second guess how far we should retaliate. They can try and divide us and make us believe that it's "our fault" that these people are willing to commit suicide attacks against civilians.

Well, following that logic, I guess we can claim it was OBL's fault that we were forced to NUKE KABUL and every other center of Islamic extremism...

Of course, we're not likely to do that... but for a threat to be real, the enemy must have every reason to believe that you're not above taking such a step.

I'm all for being deliberate about the type of action we take. But I'm also for giving some friendly "slaps" in the face so people in this country realize that theirs no talking ourselves out of this one. The gaunlet has been thrown down and if we don't pick it up, we'll never be respected as a global power again. And that will have not only military consequences for us, but economic ones as the world is forced to react to US ambiguity.

Hawk (and proud of it...)
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