Amein:
Thank you for your post. At your suggestion I will also change the title of the thread to "Understanding Islam" - but bare with me as I need to figure out how I can do this! If you or anyone knows how I can do this please do let me know. Also Like I said before if you would also like to provide links and sources that you see appropriate to the introduction text please do let me know.
I would also like to ask you, while I am being totally open minded about Islam, you also promise to have an open minded attitude about the religion, and DO NOT defend it when you know the logic behind that defense does not make sense. If we you can abide by this unbiased attitude then we both can come to have a better "Understanding" of Islam (as the name of the thread suggest).
Now to your explanations of Wife beating as discussed in Quran:
You state:
> first, the behavior is governed by Islam and Quran and not the husband's feelings, wishes, desires or whims...
So in essence men are the ones who administer and interpret what Quran and Islam teach, and as you also pointed out Quran and Islam (and I am quoting you): "...there is a verse in Quran that specifically says that men are one notch above women because of the responsibility they take of supporting the family...
Now lets analyze what this would mean to an average human being:
a) Men are better (or higher) than women because Islam thinks their importance to the institution of family is far greater than that of women. Therefore they can administer how that family thinks, feels, and lives. In essence men are the only member of a family unit who have the ultimate saying in what is "Right" and what is "Wrong" based on how they interpret the teachings of Quran.
And this is of course consistent with other teachings of Quran where for example it says that women have half the brain as men (or to be politically correct: Women have mind deficiencies), and therefore implying that their judgement can not be trusted.
With all due respect to you Amein, if this is the case then God as defined by Islam and (if he is assumed to have written Quran) is a mean, evil senseless supreme being. And I do not think it is necessary to go in details as why I think that way for which I believe you are a well educated individual to understand the basic requirements of having a family institution and human rights in the 21st century.
you state:
> ...in Islam, a woman can divorce her husband on the grounds of abuse or infidelity or impotence... so, she does not have to beat her husband, ... and again, he can simply divorce as well if he feels that he did all the talking and does not want to resort to the last recourse...
I guess I can understand this logic. In essence if the real world worked according to what this logic suggests we would not have so many abused women in this country. However the problem I have is that Quran has given a man certain guidelines to punish his wife if "he" feels she is not behaving according to the teachings of Quran. As is the case in Iran (and many other Islamic countries) a woman in most cases does not divorce her husband simply because:
a) The husband ends up getting her children, and I do not think I have to explain this to you what this would mean to a mother.
b) Assuming the wife gets her divorce, what can she do as an individual? Islam and Quran do not view the woman as a bread bringer or head of the family, and if all she had done during her life was to take care of her husband and children, what would she do when she is divorced? Are men obligated to provide her support (financially)? Do women have any rights what so ever to receive any of her husband’s properties, etc. etc.?
C) So what a woman is left to do? The only alternative she would have is to marry someone else for her own safety and support. And this cycle can potentially continue.
In essence Islam gives MEN a blank check to do whatever they wish to do to the women, and it provides a framework for the men to justify their actions.
I guess if one thinks about this, Quran may have liberated Women (of the region known as Arabia where Islam was born originally) for which 1500 years ago Women were literally treated like a Dog, or as if they were sub-human. And in that sense Quran did make a big difference and liberated them. However, even during that period Women of other cultures were far far liberated than what even Quran had provided, and as a result by the systematic forceful conversion of people from different cultures to Islam, Women from those converted cultures lost their rights and freedom that they previously may have enjoyed. And to give you an example Persia can be considered the perfect example of this and the barbaric invasion of Arabs which ended up leaving nothing for the Persians but destruction and of course Islam.
In any event, based on 21st century requirements for basic human rights, and respect don’t you honestly deep down think Quran's treatment of Women is anything but human? And please go deep down to your heart and ask the question.
If I am worng please educate me. But as I stated earlier, please accept that which is wrong and which does not make sense and do not attempt to defend something that deep down you - as an educated man - know is WRONG.
Best Regards,
P.S - Looking forward to hearing from you on each item discussed in the following:
members.aol.com
Also would like to know if you disagree with what I stated in the following post:
Message 16441483 |
