The Positive Side of the Ledger:
Message 16500458
To:Robert Barry who wrote (6754)
From: Bilow Saturday, Oct 13, 2001 10:08 PM
View Replies (1) | Respond to of 6858
Hi Robert Barry; Re: "WHAT COALITION!? What are the Arab states doing?"
They're providing us information behind the scenes, information which has likely assisted in the arrest of unknown numbers of terrorists. They're also suppresssing their own news organizations. Pakistan had "pro government" rallies a few days ago. But the basic problem is that a lot of their peoples are very sympathetic to the Palestinians and the Taliban. If they were to come out more in favor they'd be signing their own regime's death warrants, and we'd be faced with a worse problem. (Like another Iran.) Here's a typical article:
Egypt Holds Two Suspected Members of Terrorist Group
washingtonpost.com
If the Taliban defeats the United States the moderate regimes from Indonesia to Morocco know that they are next. And they know what Afghanistan is like. While their people may like to see the US humbled, their leadership does not want to see the US defeated. Nor does their leadership want to arrange for their own countries to have to be the next to face the juggernaut.
Re: "Where are their brave soldiers?" They're getting ready for the occupation duties that are being negotiated right now. There's plenty of news suggesting that the US is avoiding helping the Northern Alliance win before these negotiations are over. But if they don't help us police Afghanistan in the post war era we will have a brutal problem on our hands.
Their brave soldiers will be the ones who put up with most of the sniping from the Taliban. Here's a couple Washington Post articles:
On the Front Line, Waiting for Break in the War
...
Does he wish the Americans would bomb the Taliban positions that occasionally open fire on his men, as they did today? "Yeah, why not?" answered Saidi, a barrel-chested man with a trimmed black beard and American-style camouflage fatigues. "If the Americans start bombing here, we will take the offensive," he said. "We're just waiting for the order of the Defense Ministry to attack."
...
washingtonpost.com
U.S. Seeking to Shape Interim Government Before Taliban Falls
washingtonpost.com
Re: "They are sitting back, criticizing the US, ..." Actually the Islamic Organiza
The Palestinian Authority is shooting their own anti-US demonstrators:
Many Palestinians Turn Their Frustration Inward
So Hasanin, 35, was shocked the following day when he saw Palestinian policemen fire on students demonstrating in favor of bin Laden.
...
Much of his anger was directed at the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, for turning his back on bin Laden in favor of the United States. "Instead of participating in a coalition against terrorism, why doesn't he stop his police from using live ammunition against people?" he asked.
...
washingtonpost.com
Re: "... supporting the Palestinian terrorists, ..."
This may be true, but they're not critizing us nearly as much as they could be:
Islamic Group Offers U.S. Mild Rebuke
Nations at Conference Avoid Criticizing Strikes on Taliban
washingtonpost.com
Re: "... and squeezing America with the high price of oil!"
Only a very small part of the Moslem world sells oil. The majority of it sits somewhere in the range of poor to dirt poor. The concept that oil is expensive is BS. Here's a chart of oil prices, corrected for inflation, since 1944:
wtrg.com
The above GIF was the first one I found on a google search for "price oil barrel crude inflation". The article it's taken from is here:
wtrg.com
Yes, prices are up over the past few years, but prices were way down before that. The real problem with oil prices (in US dollars) is that the trade deficits that the US has run for the last 20 years have flooded the world with dollars. Oil prices were up long before September 11, and I have no doubt that we will see gold and oil zoom in price again. The stock bubble is over, and as soon as foreign holders of US dollars figure this out, we will see the dollar crash and the traditional international commodities zoom. (And the public, in their cow-like innocence, will likely blame whoever is the helpless US president at the time for the effects.)
Re: "Oh, by the way, I know where their brave soldiers are.... they are hiding from the huge state of Israel."
The lack of military usefulness of the Moslem nations is undoubtedly due to their backwardness, rather than a lack of bravery. They're perfectly good soldiers for fighting amongst themselves, but when they go up against modern professional armies they get crushed. There are a number of reasons for this, and not a one of them has anything to do with bravery:
(1) Most men are not good at war, but the Arab world relies on conscripts. It is undoubtedly true that the vast majority of their soldiers have absolutely no desire to fight. When the US had a conscript army in WW2, 85% of the front line soldiers didn't shoot at the enemy. This fact was uncovered by S.L.A. Marshall, who conducted interviews with the soldiers. The soldiers who didn't shoot at the enemy weren't cowards, they risked their life doing all the other things that combat requires (medical attention, ammunition, scouting, etc.). They could make themselves die for their country, they just couldn't make themselves kill for it. I'll put references to this in part (5).
(2) Those Arab nations that have already been at war for years (like Iraq and Iran) have had most of their guys who enjoy fighting already killed. This is because guys who like to fight are killed at much higher rates than guys who like to hide. Soldiers tend to shoot back at the soldiers who are shooting at them, the other ones are ignored. Almost everyone (other than the modern professional western military) is in denial about this, but the fact is that most guys make lousy soldiers.
(3) The Arab countries are not equipped with modern western equipment. They talk a good talk, but the fact is that their weapons suck. The Gulf war had the highest kill ratio of just about any modern war I can think of.
(4) U.S. soldiers are provided with massively large amounts of ammunitition and supplies. It's a lot easier to be brave when you have plenty of ammunition.
(5) The U.S. has a nasty tendency to fight in ways that don't give the other guy a chance to do much. Who would want to face bombs dropped from airplanes that no one can touch? But it gets worse in the ground war. The U.S. fights at night, when the other guy is blind.
(6) The industrialized democracies train their soldiers much much better than the third world. US soldiers are taught to shoot to kill without hesitation. This is an unnatural thing for a human to do. It is easy to be brave, all it takes is to face your duty, but it is much harder to kill. The professional western armies are just more professional. If you want to read more about this subject, some good books (with a perspective both military and civilian) are:
Richard Holmes, Acts of War: The behavior of Men in Battle
shop.barnesandnoble.com.
David Grossman (ex Lt. Col U.S. Army Airborne Ranger) On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
shop.barnesandnoble.com.
Grossman also has some fascinating books on tank warfare, and is the head of "killology":
killology.com
Interview with Grossman:
"Col. Grossman: John, as an Army Ranger and a West Point Psychology Professor I researched the mechanisms the military uses to enable and train soldiers to kill. Then I taught about this for the Army, at West Point and to other military organizations.
After 6-years of research I organized this information into my book, "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society." (This book is Pulitzer nominated, translated into Japanese and Italian, now in its 9th printing, and is used as a standard textbook at West Point, the California Highway Patrol Academy, and "peace studies" programs in dozens of universities.) Throughout this time frame the information that I was using was also the same information that many other organizations (like the AMA, the APA, the National Institute of Mental Health, the America Academy of Pediatrics, and the Surgeon General), were using to come to their conclusions about the strong link between media violence and violence in our society.
For several years I had a lot of trouble accepting the civilian applications of what I was doing. I did not WANT to believe what the Surgeon General and all those other people were saying. I am a Ranger and I LIKE violent video games, and action movies, etc. What I liked I also wanted to share with my kids. It took a long time for me to realize that what I liked might not necessarily be good for them. I like a beer and a cigar every now and then, and I like guns. And I like sex. A lot. But while all of these are OK for adults, I have to understand that they were not OK for my kids, and that took years to accept.
..."
stomped.com
What this all boils down to is no, the Arabs are humans, no more and no less, just like the rest of us. They have sucky governments, but when they get out from under it, they'll do fine. Yeah, our soldiers will wipe them out, but that's doesn't have much to do with bravery, it's more about technology.
-- Carl |
