Hi JC,
First, I'm uninterested in "winning" discussions like this. Frankly, I think it's impossible.
Second, this is not a women v. men forum, in general.:
Okay, ladies, I'm retreating to my bunker. You'll need one of those new missiles to get me.
I think your experience is more a function of the discussions you've entered into, as well as asides made to some of the men on the board, like the one above.
Third, I have no missiles, only arguments, quips, bon mots and sexual innuendo. But if it ever begins to feel painful to engage here, if it ever starts to leak out into your real life, it's time to take a posting break. We all do that from time to time. I'm saying this as someone who cares about you.
And now to the meat of the matter:
Your eloquence about the courage of gays in declaring themselves such was very moving.
And it would even be true ... if we were living in America many years ago, or if we were
living today in Afghanistan But the reality in America today is that it would take more
courage to risk being perceived as anti-gay.
I disagree. Read some of Choosie's posts about what it's like to live as an out lesbian in the rural south. Unfortunately I know of no other out gays on SI who are willing to discuss this. I wonder why that is. I know of beatings, shunnings by family, friends and co-workers, even torture and death ( Matthew Shepard again) to those who are gay. Now. And in America.
Gay-bashing, even murder, will lamentably continue to occur, along with other hate
crimes. But these crimes will be given the highest priority by law-enforcement, and be
prosecuted with the utmost vigor.
I believe that each of us has a responsibility to see that things like this don't happen. Hate crimes are societal ills and, as members of a society in which they happen, our actions have an effect.
only because he knew his parents would be saddened and disappointed to know that they would never enjoy being doting grandparents in the conventional way. That is an aspect of gayness that we don’t see discussed very often.
This is a point I do not understand. To have to meet your parents' disappointment and sadness for some that one does is difficult. To meet it for who one is seems horrific to me. My heart goes out to any person whose parents' concern is more for the selfish pleasure of potential grandchildren than the joy in seeing their own child being loved and loving.
It is because those terms refer to race,
gender, or ethnicity ... which do lie close to the heart and soul of who a person is. I think
you do a disservice to the historic battle for justice waged by these groups to imply that
“sexual preference” stands on equal ground with them.
As a women and a mother of a child who is Asian, trust me when I tell you that my putting sexual preference up their next to gender and race does no disservice. How do you know that sexual preference does not "lie close to the heart and soul of who a person is"? I accept that it does not to you. Please accept that it does indeed to many people.
This is going to grate on you, but gayness does mean sex. It is a word now substituted for
Homosexuality. It means the kind of sex one prefers having. That, anyway, is
what my three dictionaries say, in very much the same brief words. I think you become
annoyed with me because I seerm not willing to endow gayness with a host of other
attributes and qualities.
I do not understand your initial point. Do you think that I do not understand what "gay" means?
And I am not endowing "gayness" per se with any qualities. I spoke specifically of the courage it takes for a contemporay American to live an out gay life.
I don’t need to know whether she did or not, and I believe that it demeans her memory
and all of the true accomplishments of her life to insist that it is so important that we do
have to know. It may bring comfort and support to contemporary gays to establish that
Eleanor shared that orientation ... but I think it is selfish of them to invoke her memory
for that purpose.
On Eleanor Roosevelt: In my view, it is what we do and how we love that are most important. I consider the act of loving anyone to be a blessing and probably the only legacy most of us will ever leave. I like knowing the truth. I like knowing that Mrs. Roosevelt loved a woman or two along the course of her exceptional life. I like it not because it makes me proud, but because it is the truth. |
