My quarter is on the table...ante up and we shall see. But first we must understand the rules. In Hawk's post, he was referring to a brigade slice of the 101st...this is a one-third division slice...a much, much greater lift and logistic problem to sustain a force of this size than your "3+ battalions"...sounds to me like you are talking only straight-leg grunt battalions...
hi jj,
i will be happy to discuss the Table of Organization and Equipment (TOE) of any army unit with you.
the 101st is about 14,000 men strong and it has 3 brigades...to say a brigade is 1/3 of the division strength is a common error but denies any support (aviation, artillery, medical, supply etc) units in the division strength figures. the support units can remain under division control or be temporarily attached to a maneuver brigade but thay are not part of the brigade TOE.
my figure of 3 battalions per brigade is standard US Army configuration. actually i believe i said 3+ battalions to allow for combined arms teams such as those used by the 1st division in europe. in their case, a combined team of infantry and armor gives most of their brigades 4 battalions.
as far as the 101st, the last time i looked they had 3 maneuver brigades of 3 battalions each. for example the 1st brigade of the 101st presently consists of an HHC company and 3 battalions, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd of the 327th infantry battalions. they may or may not have support units temporarily "attached"...i.e., an aviation regiment. but they are not on the brigade TOE.
i was around for the Army changeover from regiments to brigades...but the differences are not really significant. the USMC still uses regiments organized similarly to some Army brigades...for example, the 1st regiment of the 1st Marine Division consisted of 4 maneuver battalions...1/1, 2/1, 3/1 and the 1/4. if 1/4 is an armor unit...that is pretty close to a brigade organization from the 1st infantry division.
now as far as your comment about legs...i find that pretty silly...goofy even. as a former paratrooper with many many years on status including static and halo, i realize that it is nearly always used to demean. i am not sure why you said it to me...but for the record, i have been on the ground with and near leg infantry, both Army and USMC. both units were outstanding in the woods. but it matters not, you will find the TOE of US Infantry divisions to be quite similar whether on jump status or not.
now back to the original subject...
you said...I'll double or nothin' my bet that no brigade, Army or Marine, can launch from a sea platform and operate and be sustained 700 miles inland without overland logistic support and lots of it. Ain't gonna happen!
i'll take the bet.
your mileage figures regarding geographical distances precluding support of a brigade just do not make sense to me. did you ever hear of gaudalcanal or iwo? there were no roads to send convoys down... khe sanh was supplied by air as were nearly all of the special forces camps in nam...several of them had 3 or more battalions. here is another one for you to consider...the Berlin airlift. all of the support for 1 1/2 million residents of west berlin was flown in for nearly a year. that included reinforced US Army, British, and French brigades (the equivalent of an entire division plus). and that was done with C46s and C47s. our current cargo aircraft carry 30+ times the load.
i see that you are a Marine Colonel. i respect that. i salute you and thank you for your service. i do not know a lot about the USMC but i can tell you that the Army now has the ability to free wheel entire divisions around the world. it is amazing but true, and our adversaries are learning it the hard way.
when the first brigade hits the ground, you can send my winnings to the USMC league Christmas toy program.
unclewest |
