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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: unclewest who wrote (8504)11/2/2001 4:18:29 AM
From: jjkirk  Read Replies (1) of 281500
 
Greetings! Unk,

My first impulse was to reach into my bag of "Voltaire"isms and respond: "You may be right"....But, at the risk of proving the adage to the effect that: "He is succinct who knows his subject." The implication being that long answers....you get it! (Not to bore everyone, I am putting in detail for the civilians in the group...I'm not talkin' down to you, Unk.) I really enjoy a good discussion of something we both know a lot about. I hope it is within the scope of the thread and entertaining if not educational.

Let me get this out of the way..."straight-leg infantry" is no term of disrespect in my book...only an indication of 2.5 mph infantry that fight and survive with a minimal of logistic support...they are rare indeed if not extinct. Also, this is not an internecine Marine vs Army discussion...my hometown is Lawton, OK, the home of Ft Sill...the whole town lives and breaths Army and Field Arty...May those caissons keep rollin' along...my younger son went thru boot camp there...many of my Lawton HS classmates are Army...I am a product of 33 years, Marine private to colonel, who profited much from my education at the Army Engineer Career Course at Ft Belvoir, the JFK Center for Special Warfare Counter-Guerrilla Operations Course at Ft Bragg, and a tank and automotive maintenance short course at Ft Knox...all this to say I have no bone to pick with you, Unk, and I have some appreciation for US Army organization, tactics and techniques, communications and equipment.

As an Marine combat engineer, I supported what we, sometimes with pride, sometimes with tongue in cheek, referred to as "the glory of the Corps"...the infantry. Whether engineer or infantry, pilot or air controller, tanker or artilleryman, maintainer or medicine man, we were a team that won wars, but not without fully supporting the infantry...the whole purpose of everyone in the Corps is get that infantryman on the ground, keep him alive, and support and sustain him until he killed the enemy...This is no less true in the US Army. In the Corps, we train to make every Marine an infantryman, but that doesn't mean we are all equally proficient at closing with and killing the enemy. I have the greatest respect for the infantry, Army and Marine. There are special breeds, set aside for tasks requiring special courage, honor, strength and skill...paratroopers are among these special breeds, and I salute you for your service, Unk.

I submit for your consideration...In our argument we are like two blind men describing an elephant...not to suggest that either of us is blind...only perhaps to the other's point of view...I am at the front of the elephant telling you that an elephant is like a hog, only with a bigger shout...while you are at the tail explaining that the elephant is slim like a snake, only with hair...

Perchance that in explaining how an Army Brigade could swoop down in Afgani territory, you have the tactician's view of what should happen?...what others have done in the past?... what is doable if we only work hard enough?...what is necesssary if we are to get the job done?...All required and admirable qualities if we are to ever get our forces into position to close with and kill the enemy...

I submit that I too am taken with the need for immediate action...unfortunately, I am a product of the military "up or out" syndrome...I could not stay a company commander forever...I tried...I had four of them...or, even a combat engineer battalion commander forever...I only had one...no, the Peter Principal lives and I was promoted up the line seeking that level to which my incompetence would become clear...In the furtherance of that goal, I was sent to many schools, taught how to determine the probable from the possible...I was posted to Marine Command Pacific in Hawaii, and Marine Corps Headquarters in Washington, and Marine Command Atlantic in Norfolk...all lofty places where we argued and planned what should be, if we were to keep our string of winnings in tact...and faced the reality of what our civilian handlers, the administration and the congress and the American people, would provide...As you know, Unk, we often got a snout and a snake when we needed the whole elephant.

The upshot of all this paripatetic behavior? I became a, er,....no, not a tactician...no, not a Patton or a Puller...no, I was told that I had to deal in the realm of physical possibilities...of political realities...of geography and weather...of available supplies and equipment...of lead times...of 3 to 5 year procurement plans for ammunition and spare parts and airplanes and tanks and guns and butter and airlift and sealift and load plans and cycle times and how long it takes to fly in a helicopter 800 miles...about three lifetimes is the answer to that last one...about planning and sustaining the glory of the Corps with bullets, beans and bandaids once they are committed to God knows where...well, no Sir, Unclewest, I said, shuffling my feet...I became a, a, a logistician...(whimper, sniff...)

A WHAT!, he roared...You are NOT a TACTICIAN?!...nuh', no Sir...I'm not a tactician...I don't know HOW it happened , Sir...I WAS one when I was younger...I had a flat stomach and ran 6 miles every day before sunup and 9 miles at noon and walked 3 miles both ways uphill through hip-deep snow to school...I was a good tactician...

(Like the narrator at a golf match, the moderator quietly breathes...)
The unitiated among us may question what, pray tell, is this LOGISTICIAN and how and why should he be able to even sit in the same room, let alone speak in the presence of a TACTICIAN ???

Unk and all who are still awake... For an answer to that question, I will close with someone more succinct than I...jj

LOGISTICIANS

"Logisticians are a sad, embittered race of men, very much in demand in war, who sink
resentfully into obscurity in peace. They deal only with the facts but must work for
men who merchant in theories. They emerge in war because war is very much fact.
They disappear in peace because, in peace, war is mostly theory. The people who
merchant in theories, who employ logisticians in war and ignore them in peace,
are Generals. Logisticians hate Generals.

"Generals are a happily blessed race who radiate confidence and power. They feed
on ambrosia and drink only nectar. In peace they stride confidently and can invade
a world simply by sweeping their hands grandly over a map pointing their fingers
decisively up terrain corridors, blocking defiles and obstacles with the sides of their
hands. In war they must stride more slowly because each General has a logistician
riding on his back --- and he knows that at any moment, the logistician may lean
forward and whisper, "No, you can’t do that." Generals fear logisticians in war,
and in peace, Generals try to forget logisticians."

"Romping along besides Generals are strategists and tacticians. Logisticians
despise strategists and tacticians. Strategists and tacticians do not know
about logisticians until they grow up to be generals --- which they usually do."

"Sometimes a logistician gets to be a general. In such a case, he must
associate with Generals whom he hates. He has a retinue of strategists
and tacticians whom he despises. And on his back is a logistician whom
he fears. This is why logisticians who get stars also get ulcers and
cannot eat their ambrosia."

Lt. Gen. W.W. Vaughan USA
(Before the 29th Annual Convention of the American Logistical Assn.)
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