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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank

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To: Solon who wrote (42039)1/6/2002 10:41:26 AM
From: J. C. Dithers  Read Replies (2) of 82486
 
...It turns out that there were indeed "millions of deaths: two million for sure...

For sure? Well, to begin with "Solon," your linked source is "Rich Green's Homepage". I don't know who Rich Green is, but for some reason he does not inspire me with great confidence as a reliable source. Let's examine Rich's calculations: (I have bolded Rich's numbers)

Killed by the Western Allies.
Japanese civilian dead:
2 million5
Hiroshima:
about138,890 according to Gilbert. 5
Nagasaki:
about 48,857according to Gilbert.5
Tokyo bombings:
"On May 24, more than four hundred American
bombers dropped 3,646 tons of bombs on central
Tokyo, and on the industrial areas in the south of the
city. More than a thousand Japanese were killed."5
Tokyo, March 1945: "83,793 Japanese civilians
killed. That was the official minimum death toll; later,
130,000 deaths were 'confirmed' by the Japanese
authorities." 5
Nagoya, Osaka, Kobe, Yokohama, Kawasaki
March-May 1945:
"more than a quarter of a million"5


What we have is 138,890 + 48,857 + 1,000 + 130,000 + 250,000 = 568,780

Now, if we take Rich's total of 2,000,000, and subtract the specified 568,780, we have a remainder of 1,431,220 deaths not accounted for by time or location. 1,431,220 is not an insignificant number. Why do you suppose Rich fails to account for nearly 3/4 of his claimed total of 2,000,000?

I guess we could only ask Rich himself. Rich indicates that he got his numbers from this source:

5.Gilbert, Martin, The Second World War: A Complete History, New
York: Henry Holt and Company, 1989, p. 746, 715, 696,448, 641,649

Perhaps you could check this source, which I have no doubt is a respectable one, and verify Rich's calculations. I think you would be just as interested as I am to know where and when all these other innocent civilians lost their lives at the hand of the Allies.

I don't disagree with you that calculating war deaths is subject to many qualifications and assumptions, which explains why figures from different sources may differ greatly. In the case of Japanese civilian deaths, the very definition of "civilian" becomes a critical issue. Remember that in the final weeks of the war, virtually all remaining Japanese adults were conscripted into military service for defense of the homeland. Should we count them as "military" or "civilian"?

I acknowledge that the 300,000 figure I cited for you seems to be a clear understatement. The Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, gives Japanese "Civilian Deaths Due to War" as 672,000. It is interesting that this number comes close to Rich's specified deaths of 568,780.

All things considered, I stand by my belief that your "millions of innocent civilians" claim is wildly exaggerated and not supported by the known facts. Moreover, I think it is clear that you made no attempt to verify your claimed number until last night.
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