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To: Michael Watkins who wrote (2314)	1/16/2002 4:03:11 PM
From: TheStockStalker	Read Replies (1) of 12411

Mr. Rok did not use a Stop Limit order. He used a STOP order. Michael, I understand exactly how the system works but you miss my main point. The point is that EVEN IF Mr. Rok would have used a STOP LIMIT order (with the max limit) instead of a Stop order, the order still would have and will be held by IB and simulated at the stop price. Other brokers would have allowed a a Stop Limit order to reside on the Globex server and not have to simulate it allowing them to be first in line or near the front. I am pointing out that this can be prevented in the future with the combination of the right type of order combined with a compatible broker. The GLOBEX system does not currently handle true "market orders I do not know why you are boldfacing that to me when I am very clear on that fact. I have made no comments regarding placing market orders. But since you bring it up, all market orders regardless of broker used are in fact "simulated". They are sent as marketable limit order with a max limit set. I think the SPmini is 20 handles but it may be different now. This data is not available on the CME site. Do you know what the limits are? The point is, if all brokers are sending marketable LIMIT orders to simulate MARKET orders on STOP losses, then people need to just place STOP LIMIT orders at the source since the Globex servers do allow those type of orders. Its very possible, in fact its highly likely, but not as a result of any failure of IB or limitation in their design. I agree that there is 0 "failure" involved by IB because they fully disclose the mechanics of the system and the customer agrees and accepts those terms. I think their platform does exactly what they describe and that is a good thing. I even find if acceptable for some traders. BUT I do find that it IS a "limitation" in their design by definition. If Globex allows a functionality on their servers and IB does no pass this function through to the customer, then they have put a limitation on services directly available by Globex by simulating them instead. This manifest itself in latency and lesser position in a price and time priority system such a Globex. It turns out that the conclusion you are drawing is based on half facts as well Where do I use a half fact? I really do try to be quite methodical and I do believe that all I have posted is true. I think perhaps I was misread. My original point was that even though he used a stop instead of a stop limit, it would have made no difference in execution speed due to the fact that current IB routing methods limit this Globex functionality by simulating what is already available. Secondly, I never stated that the Globex system used anything other than a siumulated market order and I realize that true market orders were never available there. Plus it seems to me that too much emphasis is being placed on one aspect of order types, with no discussion as to why IB or other brokers elect to handle orders in one way or another, meaning only part of the issue has been discussed. Why as a CUSTOMER do I need to worry about the corporate philosophy of a firm that may not meet my requirements? I mean if I go to a restaurant and the food taste like crap, do I just wonder "why does the food taste like crap" and continue eating it or do I just go somewhere that has good food. Now if you are involved with the company or are an employee then I think it is the pertinent question to ask. The bottom line is that I think that if his order would have been sitting on the Globex machine and near the front of the line, the slippage would have been very small. All the Globex machine held orders were already executed before the quotes even had time to hit the IB servers. Even orders set several points higher will execute beofore the client servers even gets a quote. The speed using this kind of order is absolute lightening. This is not supposed to be personal but to help people and unless you are some how associated with them (which I had assumed you were not), I think is is self evident how it truly can help some people. I think it is incorrect that some people say that there is nothing to learn from yesterday and even worse to say that there is nothing that could have been done to prevent or minimize it. Stalker

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