lorne,
When you have a book, that its original manuscripts has never been proven wrong for any prophecy, in any way, it is a good bet that its accurate and right. Its easy to say as you said, "IMO things that were written by man back then can be made by man to look like a prophecy to day". Sounds good on the surface. But lets look at it another way, show me where the prophecy is wrong, about Ishmael, Isaac, Abraham, or anything else in the original manuscripts of the Bible. Well I am happy to tell you, there are no errors.
So it easy to say people today can make anything fit into any prophecy. And I admit, in certain situations, you are absolutely right. People make the mistake all the time. But open your mind and think of it the other way. Show me where the prophecy of Ishmael is wrong, or any other prophecy in the Bible for that matter?
I'll give you another example. There are countless prophecies in the Bible that have come true throughout world history. But lets look at only eight of them. They are:
Messiah Would be Born in Bethlehem
Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
Messiah Would be Preceeded by a Messanger
Malachi 3:1 "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD
Almighty."
Messiah Would Enter Jerusalem on a Donkey
Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king {[9] Or } comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
Messiah Would Be Betrayed By a Friend
Zechariah 13:6 If someone asks him, `What are these wounds on your body {[6]Or }?' he will answer, `The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.'
Messiah Would Be Betrayed for 30 Pieces of Silver
Zechariah 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver"
Messiah Betrayal Sum Would Not Be Returned But Cast Down in the Temple
Zechariah 11:13 "And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."
Messiah Would Not Defend Himself at Death
Isaiah 53:7 "He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth."
Messiah's Hands & Feet Would Be Pierced
Psalm 22:16 "Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced {[16] Some Hebrew manuscripts, Septuagint and Syriac; most Hebrew manuscripts < like the lion,>} my hands and my feet."
Some college kids got together to figure out the odds for any one man to fulfill all of the following 8 prophecies....the odds, 1 in 2.8 x (10 to the 28th power). I am not a mathematician, but I know there is at least 28 zeros in the number. Pretty big odds!
Ever see Back to the Future, I think Part II or III, and a sports almanac is taken from the future, back to the past. Well, if you haven't, the story goes that this almanac in the future had all the past scores, precisely. Of course it would because it was written in the future, well after the games got played. But it went back in time, before the games got played. Anyway, when Biff (who lives in the past) in the movie sees the almanac, he has a hard time believing it. He listens to the first game to see if the score he is looking at is accurate. Of course it is. And I imagine after a certain number of games, and the almanac being precisely right every time, I think anyone would start to trust it. Well this movie scenario is a fictional example that of course is not true.
But the example of the Bible is true. And countless, not just the eight I pointed out, have all came true, including the prophecy about Ishmael. So if you want to say it is true, but it is because people can make it fit to be true, thats is your perogative. But look at some more, hundreds more, and keep making that argument, that people are making them fit. Then add in that none of the prophecies were ever wrong. Then after that, make your conclusion.
I have done so with many, many prophecies. And I'll tell you this, if you examine the prophecies of the Bible, any one, from every perspective including historically, scientifically, archaelogically, etc., and they are all accurate, there is only one conclusion you can come to when you find this out. And betting against those odds, well..... And there are many prophecies in the future to come in the Bible. Lets see if they come true. I, and many others, know they will! It doesn't take a rocket scientist (no offense to rocket scientists) to figure it out!
I have gone on way to long about the Bible here. But when someone says something that has come true, as you stated, "IMO things that were written by man back then can be made by man to look like a prophecy to day." is a very weak argument, especially when you take one sentence out of the whole book and make your argument. Look at all the prophecies and make this argument. Try it! I used to use excuses like this to explain biblical verses away also. So I understand you doing so. It is very easy to do, and gets you out of further study! But I don't make arguments like this anymore. And it does not take much studying to figure out what I am telling you is true.
I'll put this reply to bed now and try to stick to Islam. I apologize for going off topic, but really wanted to make this point, especially after the stand you took.
God Bless,
IGIT |
