"Now want to state what is you're trying to say?"
I offered a perspective through which non-believers could see how believers can apply sense to having faith in God, in reaction to your comment:
"Sense and faith have something to do with each other? When did this start?"
I called this perspective Triangulation. I did not suggest that everyone would become a believer this way, only that thinking people could be sensible about their beliefs in this way. I used Corvette owners who believe their cars are better than others as an example. Even though I see why they believe thier cars are better and it makes sense, I would not want a Corvette for myself.
You responded with two criticisms of triangulation:
1)"Triangulation is an exact, definable process used in land surveying. Every surveyor will come up with the same answer."
Triangulation is used this way it is also used in social science research when studying the myriad of issues involving populations of people, and I have asked you to consider applying a triangulated approach to see how a person can believe in God in a sensible way. This comment demonstrated your lack of willingness to consider the premise at all. Your second criticism had to do with religion.
2)"Yet there are many faiths with many different answers. How can that be?"
As Dithers pointed out the issue here is only focused on believing and not on a particular religion, group, practice, sect, club or any such thing. This comment then demonstrates that you see a problem with the idea that there can be a supreme being who authorizes various and apparently conflicting religions. I am not arguing this point and it has nothing to do with the topic as I presented it. It is merely a pat complaint of non-believers regarding world religions. This is again evidence that you would rather not think about the premise as I presented it.
I really am not the guy to bring complaints about religion or believers to. I have my own complaints even though I believe in God. You are in some respects preaching to the choir on that. Consider this: Most of the billions of believers in the world are sensible people in their everyday comings and goings. The extremists are few and far between, however quite visible. I do not consider fanatics and extremists as sensible people so this discussion is not about that. Your question should be, how can people who appear sensible in most ways believe in God. My response to that would be to consider the triangulation premise as I presented it and not to go off on bird walks about things that don't apply. If you are interested here it is:
When considering the sensibility of believing (in anything) you have to know how we come to understand our existence. I suggest that we live in a triangulated existence of "understanding." 1) we have what is self evident (born with it written across our hearts as a matter of humaness. 2) We have the word. The messages from our fellows that tell us of goodness and of evil and that we use to achieve understanding of goodness and evil. 3) We have all of creation through which to study and learn about the nature of existence.
When you fail to triangulate what makes sense you can understand only one aspect of your existance. When you focus on only one or two you become inbalanced (extreme):
1)Heart = Your heart drives you to passion. Left on its own, it tends toward selfish desires of the things that are attractive in creation.
2)Word = Language makes it possible to explain how the things of creation are situated and their circumstance.
The messages from our fellows about the need to consider the well being of other creatures including humans is in conflict with a survival of the fittest dog eat dog consideration. Consideration of the need to care for the well being of others as part of the human condition is confirmed in the heart and becomes belief.
3)Creation = We can know about creation by observing its properties and associations. Science without consideration of the well being of all creatures becomes a sophisticated form of survival of the fittest.
Faith: When you triangulate the three and seek the truth of a righteous humanity, you find confirmation of what makes sense and it is quite believable. I don't see a conflict with scripture and this.
If your response to this is that Muslims and Hindus are bombing each other on the other side of the planet, I will know that we are wasting time here. |
