Amein,
Thank you for your honest response. I must reply to things you have stated....
Firstly, "what percentage is 9,924 Muslims out of more than one Billion Muslims worldwide ?" ... "and as for the polls IGIT, do you really think that 10,000 Muslims opinion represent the over than one Billion Muslims worldwide ? seriously now..."
Guess you are not familiar with Gallup polling. They do it with what they deem to be a valid cross section of a control group. There is usually a small +/- deviation. And they usually do them with great accuracy. I can see you choose not to believe the polling to be accurate. I can accept that. But would you accept if it said what you were looking for? I am sure you would. But you will say to counter that that I accept it because it says what I am looking for. So the discussion on this point will go no where. But remember, actions speak louder than words. And I have seen no Muslim actions that would make me believe this poll is not true. Can you show me some Muslim actions that would lead any of us to believe this poll is not true? Like, if the Muslims turn over bin Laden, that would be an act, or proof to me that they are loving and peaceful people. But what have the Muslims done to show love and peace to us as a result of 9/11 and make us think this poll is a lie?
Secondly, you said, do you think that the media has represented that segment of Muslims ? or do you simply think it does not exist ?"
I have seen the media represent some Muslims that condemn the 9/11 attacks and the violence. But not many. Now your point is true, the media can represent stories with bias. I have seen it done many, many times. So I agree with you on this. I have seen them misrepresent the Israel side of
the story of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict so many times, it is not even funny.
Next, you said, "by suggesting to accept what the media has portrayed, and giving Islam the image based on the actions of some Muslims, is indeed shallow... you don't agree with that... and that is fine... it is not meant as an insult by any means... merely pointing to the obvious..."
I have shown clearly too many (again, you don't see it) that the Islamic scriptures clearly support the terrorist actions. I know I am repeating myself here. But you keep ignoring this! And having proven to many people the Islamic scriptures support the actions of the terrorist Muslims, you saying I am shallow basing my opinion of Islam solely on what the media portrays, is incorrect. My image of Islam is based on the Islamic scriptures, the actions of Islam's great prophet, the behavior of Muslims (current and past) and the media. The media is by far the last thing I would solely base any opinion on, agreeing with you that the media sometimes has bias in depicting stories.
Next, you said, "the mere fact that Muslims rejected the idea that it was Muslims and Arabs behind the 9/11 acts should be an indication to you that this is not the true nature of Islam..."
What is your point? Do you think all Muslims do think Arab/Muslims were behind the attacks?
Next, you said, " and as for your questions, why are Muslims not cleaning up the mess ? Muslim leaders made their statements at the time... but do you see the media repeating these statements ? ...the hype of violence sells better with the networks than the attempt of finding truths...
Can you point me to the statements that they made, condemning the attacks? Also, lets follow them up with the actions that further prove they are backing up their statements? (Actions are louder than words.)
Next you said, "and why should Muslims (in general) be required to clean up a mess that they believe does not belong to them to begin with...? I mean if a Jew or Christian goes and kills 10,000 praying Muslims, do all Jews or Christians have to clean up the mess that tarnished their religion...? shouldn't the world try to discern on their own what is what...? are all Jews/Christians accountable to the actions of any confused/crazy Jew/Christian ?"
Well lets put it this way, if the Muslims don't clean it up, they are not going to like someone coming in from the outside doing it for them, will they? Don't most Muslims call that a holy war? Doesn't Islamic scripture clearly speak about Muslim verse non-Muslim in war? The Muslims must clean up the mess or they are not going to like what they get. You see, its hard to look at two Muslims standing next to each other, and figure out who the radical Muslim and who the conservative/moderate Muslim is. It would be much easier for the Muslims to discern this than the non-Muslim. And my opinion is, if this horrendous act carried out Muslims was done by the Jews or Christians, the Jews and Christians are accountable to clean it up and make sure their beliefs are represented clearly to the other people of other faiths. Your view, simply is the easy way out, in my opinion. Just say, they aren't true Muslims, they're not our responsibility, and walk away. But if you don't show by words and actions you are decisively different, and you proceed not to clean up the mess, you can not distinguished out from the radical Muslims.
Finally, you said "finally IGIT, you have not proven ANYTHING... all that you have proved and displayed is that you are very biased against Islam by not accepting the reasons of the verses, and taking them out of context..."
Prove it! Show where I have done so and I will admit you are right. But will you admit you have taken things out of context, not accepting the reasons for verses, if I point out where you have done so? I know you will not because I have done this, and you have come back with illogical arguments, not gotten back to me at all to some of my posts, and posted non-referenced and biased material. In addition you have banned me, for a time, from posting because you could not accept what I was saying (although now you have let me return), and banned many more than I, not letting them post on your thread because you simply can not support your position or refute their own.
Additionally, I am willing to study your scriptures and invest time in understanding them more than you are. I can show you an example of something I was pointing out to you in the Islamic scriptures which I knew something about, and you said you had no time to do so, and also admitted you knew nothing about it. You have admitted you have not read a lot of the Islamic scripture, but yet me being a Christian, I am willing to invest a lot of my time in reading the scriptures, even though I do not believe in them, and have very little to gain. So say I am very biased against Islam all you want, but any attitude I have towards Islam is based on study. Your belief and defense of Islam is based upon an incomplete study of it (as admitted by yourself). And you are not interested at all in spending the additional time studying it to know the truth about what you defend.
I am willing to study it, and you are not as willing, but yet you defend Islam. "Go figure!" (This quote is a cut and paste from your post to me, by the way!)
Also Amein, like it or not, you took on a major responsibility when you advertised to all SI members you were going to try to show the true message of Islam here. Well by doing so, you should be willing to study anything anyone wants to, and make sure your defense of Islam is to the fullest, and completely. What you have done, ironically, in my opinion, is show many the true message of Islam, by your illogical and uneducated arguments, your willingness to blindly defend a religion you admittedly have not fully studied, your censorship tactics, your non-referenced posts feeding false and biased information, your crude remarks and insults usually slung at people instead of answering questions they are asking. And I will support everything, everything I said here, if you want me to. And this "is not meant as an insult by any means... merely pointing to the obvious..." (Another quote from you to me!)
Amein, if you ban me based on this post, you will justify everything I have said. But you can do what you want. If you do, however, you will weaken your position greatly (although it can not be weakened much more) by doing so. And again, you will be portraying Islam in doing so. You took on a responsibility. Now own up to it!
Additionally, I will be heard on your thread, whether you ban me or not. When you banned me the last time, I was still heard on your thread, whether you knew it or not! So I would not suggest it! I suggest your firm and well documented defense of what I have said, and lets see what the true message of Islam is, through our conversation. Let the people judge for themselves.
Show us the true message of Islam! Please!
God Bless,
IGIT |
