>Right!! The Israelis took the West Bank and Gaza back in the 60's or 70's and that was supposed to end the fighting permanently. Finally, Israel had the buffer zones it needed to ward off any attacks from the Arabs. Fast forward to the 90's......the Palestinians have come up with the concept of the suicide bomber. No longer do they have to fight gun to gun, street to street with the Israelis. Just come over to a Sbarro or a supermarket and blow up some Israelis.
Z, if you look at articles back when Israel took over the West Bank, Gaza et al, the Israeli thinking at the time was that by having these buffer zones, they were more protected from Palestinian incursions. And to a degree they were correct......the West Bank provides some separation between the refugee Palestinians and the Israelis. However, nothing really was accomplished because the Palestinians simply changed their tactics and invented the suicide bomber to get their destruction across to Israel. Again all the fighting and subjection of the 60's and 70's accomplished little and did not provide Israel with the lasting peace it desires.
Taking over those territories wasn't supposed to end all of the fighting... you can't end the deep-seeded hostilities overnight-
Why is that? Why can't you so intimidate a people that they finally shout their mouths?
doing so was just meant to take away geographical advantages that the Arab states around them had. The people in the territories were going to try and attack Israel whether it took over those territories or not-
And they did, didn't they?
There really is only year-long history of Israeli military incursions, and those incursions have been very brief. This is the first one that I've really felt good about. According to Shimon Peres, the Americans have told Israel that they can continue for another couple of weeks before pulling out. Considering how much Israel has accomplished in the past week, another couple of weeks could help a lot, but it probably won't do all that it needs to do, and then you'll come back after another bombing and say, "See? Look, the military actions didn't work!"
I don't think there can ever be enough time spent or enough land annexed that will stop the violence permanently. That is not the way that the problems in the Middle East will be solved.
>And you believe that if you take every weapon and lock up every member of Hamas and Al Aqsa and every other terrorist group that that would be the end. If so, I don't think you understand the root of the problem and how pervasive the unrest is. If you better want to understand, go to some of the largest cities in this country and see the extent to which gangs rule the inner city. I suspect the spawning ground for gangs in this country is similar to and just as fertile as the ground for terrorists in the Middle East.
Do gangs ever really threaten to undermine our whole country? No.
First, although they may like to, the Palestinians are not threatening to take down all of Israel but they can undermine its sense of well being. And in the same way, gangs undermine the well being of this country, particularly for those Americans who live and/or work in our cities.
Why not? Because they don't have automatic weapons or missiles or powerful explosives.
Excuse me.......LA gangs at least have AK's. One of the laments by the LAPD when I lived there is that their weaponry was not as as sophisticated as the gangs'. Why? The LA gangs run the very lucrative drug trade in the West......they are awash in money.
Our urban gangs are a serious problem. However, why they don't go spinning out of control is that it is possible, although very difficult, to quit gang life and get a job and go straight. In addition, it is possible for Latino and Black youth to find alternatives to gang life; difficult but ultimately doable. These weak alternatives siphon off some of the trouble makers and allows there to be some hope in the ghetto of a better life.
No such hope exists for many Palestinian youth. And without hope, you have the ultimate terrorist.......the suicide bomber.
Those are all things that need to be taken from the Palestinians. As I've said before, after taking all of the weapons, Israel would then have to try to work with a demilitarized Palestinian people- it would be much easier than working with a militarized one.
Z, when you watch the news depicting fighting between Israelis and Palestinians what do you see? I really would like to know. I will tell you what I see. I see a rag tag bunch of people fighting with sticks, fire bombs, stones and the occasional rifle that looks fairly old.
Where are all these sophisticated weapons that you worry about? Are they stored waiting for the ultimate battle? The Palestinians are certainly not taking advantage of them. Why do you think the Israelis do take some sh*t for their incursions into the West Bank towns? What we see fighting those rag tag insurgents is a well armed, well run modern army? Of course, the Palestinians come off looking like a modern David. I am smart enough to know that there is more to the Palestinian opposition than what we see but I can't sit here and have you tell me that the Palestinians command sophisticated weaponry....and not question what appears to be your bias.
>Oh, the poor Israelis.....undermined by a Madison Ave. PR war on the part of the Arabs. Its the Israelis who have done the PR war.....and very effectively I might add. I
Please tell me what Israeli PR war you're talking about here.
The Israelis don't use Madision Ave. PR firms.......they have well paid lobbyists and American Jewish organizations that promote their views and postion. In addition, American Jews through organizations like B'nai B'rth raise tons of money privately for Israel. Why do you think
they get so much aid from our gov't, let alone American Jewry?
>If only their military actions were as effective. But they have become less effective, and will be even less effective in the future.
Less effective? When was the last suicide bombing in Israel?
A Palestinian woman blew herself up as Israeli soldiers approached her house. That occurred this morning.....Israeli time. In an article I am posting shortly, it tells of Palestinian militants handing out explosion-laden belts to whomever wants to strap them on and threaten Israeli soldiers.
Now, please explain to me how the latest military incursions by Israelis is doing the trick.
>The annexed areas no longer provide safety and have become a major bone of contention.
The West Bank and Gaza haven't been annexed. AFAIK, the only land that Israel has actually annexed is the Golan Heights, which they won from Syria.
So, for sure, the new Israelis settlements in the West Bank are really only temporary. Israel has no plan to annex the West Bank. The new settlements were only a temporary solution to a population explosion problem. Right?
ted
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