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Pastimes : THE SLIGHTLY MODERATED BOXING RING

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To: Neocon who wrote (7650)4/8/2002 8:10:31 PM
From: Solon  Read Replies (6) of 21057
 
"Judaism is non- racial"

I will not comment at this time on the various kinds of Judaism, as that was not my criticism, other than to say that Judaism is not alone amongst religions as to having been fundamentally formed to preserve certain groups from the contamination of others, and to discriminate against groups up to the point of committing genocide against different races based on group characteristics..and regardless of the individual aspects. Also, to preserve, to the aggrandizement of special racial groupings..land, wealth, power, authority, admission to buildings, etc. In most religions which began in this manner...racism has not been entirely eradicated, and indeed is represented by a plethora of sects and denominations.

It is not essential for us to explore that which is neither conducive to, nor respectful of, modern efforts toward world peace, and the efforts to move beyond the primitive underpinnings of human belief systems. I have no desire to inadvertently encourage certain racists to come to this Board. So let us not carry this too far.

Nevertheless, you have clearly not read the MIshnah, or you would not be forcing this issue. And your appreciation of the Old Testament, and the point behind the "Chosen People" is severely limited, and, as well fails utterly to comprehend all the other "Chosen Peoples", and the manner in which their behaviour has unfluenced the gene pools of humanity.

And what is the meaning of "HOLY SEED??

As to the rest. You are seeing only what you wish to see. I am going to try to keep away from actual Jewish commentary, but I will go there if need be. In the meantime, the Old Testament does indeed show that other blood was sometimes intermingled with the Tribes of Israel, as you say--doesn't it??

Here (from Numbers)is a typical example. It is true that 32,000 women expand the gene pool, if they were not pregnant before hand. But what do you think might be an essential difference between women who might be pregnant, and the 32,000 who were not?

Do you see any examples of racial purification in the Old Testament? Do you see any examples of racial hatred, or discrimination?

For instance, here, where Moses pointedly and furiously asks about the woman in particular after the Genocide in which the Israelite soldiers lost not a single man..what could his point possibly be?

31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from service in the war.

31:15 And Moses said to them, "Have you allowed all the women to live?


___________________________

31:11 And the Lord spoke to Moses

31:2 "Exact vengeance for the Israelites on the Midianites-after that you will be gathered to your people.

31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm men from among you for the war, to go against the Midianites and to execute the vengeance of the Lord on Midian.

31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel.

31:5 So a thousand from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided out of the thousands of Israel.

31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge of the holy articles and the signal trumpets in his hand.

31:7 And they fought against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every male.

31:8 And they killed the kings of Midian in addition to those slain-Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba-five Midianite kings. And they killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.

31:9 And the Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their goods as plunder.

31:10 And they burned all their towns that they had inhabited and all their encampments.

31:11 And they took all the plunder and all the spoils, both people and animals.

31:12 And they brought the captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses and to Eleazar the priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of Moab, along the Jordan River across from Jericho.

31:13 And Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went out to meet them outside the camp.

31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from service in the war.

31:15 And Moses said to them, "Have you allowed all the women to live?

31:16 Look, these people, through the counsel of Balaam, caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Peor-and there was the plague among the community of the Lord.

31:17 Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man.

31:18 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.


31:19 "And any of you who has killed anyone, or touched any of the dead, remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

31:20 And you must purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood.

31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded Moses

31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass through the fire, and it will be clean; but then it must be purified with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire you must pass through the water.

31:24 And you must wash your clothes on the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into the camp."

31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses

31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest, and all the family heads of the community, take the sum of the plunder that was captured, both people and animals.

31:27 Divide the plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and the other for all the community.

31:28 "And you must exact a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep.

31:29 You are to take it from their half-share, and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised offering to the Lord.

31:30 And from the Israelites' half-share you are to take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep-from every kind of animal, and you are to give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the Lord."

31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:32 And the spoil that remained of the plunder which the men of war had gathered was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000 donkeys,

31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse with a man.

31:36 And the half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;

31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675.

31:38 And the cattle numbered 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72.

31:39 And the donkeys were 30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61.

31:40 And the people were 16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.

31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering, to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:42 And from the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the warriors,

31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging to the community,

31:44 and 36,000 cattle,

31:45 and 30,500 donkeys,

31:46 and 16,000 people.

31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the care of the tabernacle, as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, approached Moses

31:49 and said to him, "Your servants have taken a count of the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority, and not one is missing.

31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord what each man found-gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves before the Lord.

31:51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them, all of it fashioned into ornaments.

31:52 And all the gold of the offering they had offered up to the Lord from the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.

31:53 Each soldier had taken plunder for himself.

31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest received the gold from the captains of thousands and captains of hundreds, and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord.



________________________________
Again, we have Deuteronomy. Is singling out particular nations for extinction not considered protecting your own gene pool? Shall we call it, then... harmless discrimination?? And does not the entire mythos of the Tribes of Israel stand on the premise that they embody an INHERENT SUPERIORITY?? And do you know of a religion where this is not the case??

And the following is not a racist sentiment, typical of the Old Testament?

20:16 As for the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God is going to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing to survive.

20:17 Instead you must put them under the divine curse-the Hittite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite-just as the Lord your God has commanded you,

20:18 so that they cannot teach you to do the detestable things they do for their gods and you thereby sin against the Lord your God.

________________________________

Again, what in the Hell is "HOLY SEED"?? And what is the matter with "HOLY SEED" mingling with other Races?"

9:1
Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.

9:2
For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.

9:3
And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonied.

9:4
Then were assembled unto me every one that trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the transgression of those that had been carried away; and I sat astonied until the evening sacrifice.

9:5
And at the evening sacrifice I arose up from my heaviness; and having rent my garment and my mantle, I fell upon my knees, and spread out my hands unto the LORD my God,

9:6
And said, O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee, my God: for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens.


9:7
Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day.

9:8
And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

9:9
For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

9:10
And now, O our God, what shall we say after this? for we have forsaken thy commandments,

9:11
Which thou hast commanded by thy servants the prophets, saying, The land, unto which ye go to possess it, is an unclean land with the filthiness of the people of the lands, with their abominations, which have filled it from one end to another with their uncleanness.

9:12
Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.

9:13
And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this;

9:14
Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping?

9:15
O LORD God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our trespasses: for we cannot stand before thee because of this.

10:1
Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.

10:2
And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

10:3
Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

10:4
Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.

10:5
Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.

10:6
Then Ezra rose up from before the house of God, and went into the chamber of Johanan the son of Eliashib: and when he came thither, he did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned because of the transgression of them that had been carried away.

10:7
And they made proclamation throughout Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of the captivity, that they should gather themselves together unto Jerusalem;

10:8
And that whosoever would not come within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited, and himself separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away.

10:9
Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month; and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain.

10:10
And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.

10:11
Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.

10:12
Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.

10:13
But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing.

10:14
Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.

10:15
Only Jonathan the son of Asahel and Jahaziah the son of Tikvah were employed about this matter: and Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite helped them.

10:16
And the children of the captivity did so. And Ezra the priest, with certain chief of the fathers, after the house of their fathers, and all of them by their names, were separated, and sat down in the first day of the tenth month to examine the matter.

10:17
And they made an end with all the men that had taken strange wives by the first day of the first month.

10:18
And among the sons of the priests there were found that had taken strange wives: namely, of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren; Maaseiah, and Eliezer, and Jarib, and Gedaliah.

10:19
And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass.

10:20
And of the sons of Immer; Hanani, and Zebadiah.

10:21
And of the sons of Harim; Maaseiah, and Elijah, and Shemaiah, and Jehiel, and Uzziah.

10:22
And of the sons of Pashur; Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethaneel, Jozabad, and Elasah.

10:23
Also of the Levites; Jozabad, and Shimei, and Kelaiah, (the same is Kelita,) Pethahiah, Judah, and Eliezer.

10:24
Of the singers also; Eliashib: and of the porters; Shallum, and Telem, and Uri.

10:25
Moreover of Israel: of the sons of Parosh; Ramiah, and Jeziah, and Malchiah, and Miamin, and Eleazar, and Malchijah, and Benaiah.

10:26
And of the sons of Elam; Mattaniah, Zechariah, and Jehiel, and Abdi, and Jeremoth, and Eliah.

10:27
And of the sons of Zattu; Elioenai, Eliashib, Mattaniah, and Jeremoth, and Zabad, and Aziza.

10:28
Of the sons also of Bebai; Jehohanan, Hananiah, Zabbai, and Athlai.

10:29
And of the sons of Bani; Meshullam, Malluch, and Adaiah, Jashub, and Sheal, and Ramoth.

10:30
And of the sons of Pahathmoab; Adna, and Chelal, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattaniah, Bezaleel, and Binnui, and Manasseh.

10:31
And of the sons of Harim; Eliezer, Ishijah, Malchiah, Shemaiah, Shimeon,

10:32
Benjamin, Malluch, and Shemariah.

10:33
Of the sons of Hashum; Mattenai, Mattathah, Zabad, Eliphelet, Jeremai, Manasseh, and Shimei.

10:34
Of the sons of Bani; Maadai, Amram, and Uel,

10:35
Benaiah, Bedeiah, Chelluh,

10:36
Vaniah, Meremoth, Eliashib,

10:37
Mattaniah, Mattenai, and Jaasau,

10:38
And Bani, and Binnui, Shimei,

10:39
And Shelemiah, and Nathan, and Adaiah,

10:40
Machnadebai, Shashai, Sharai,

10:41
Azareel, and Shelemiah, Shemariah,

10:42
Shallum, Amariah, and Joseph.

10:43
Of the sons of Nebo; Jeiel, Mattithiah, Zabad, Zebina, Jadau, and Joel, Benaiah.

10:44
All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.
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