Sorry I took so long responding to this. I've been overwhelmed with business and personal stuff and haven't been on SI. If I can't be correct, then the next best thing is to be corrected. Thanks for the McLaughlin piece.
I actually came back to the thread for this subject, having seen this article today.
washingtonpost.com [Text appended at the end]
I did some checking around. [to see what else I might have screwed up on]
people.virginia.edu
I also found the Commission's report, which is fairly consistent with the McLaughlin piece. Though I've lost the link for now. Honestly, I kept on shaking my head [left and right] while I read that report. These people are looking for signs of "affection" between TJ and Sally. They couldn't find any, hence this was a negative that TJ and Sally had sex/children. Exuse me. What does affection have to do with a Master of a plantation having sex with a slave? The report says that Master's having sex with their slaves was a fairly common practice. Was there rampant affection between masters and slaves that we were not aware of?
The prime alternate suspect seems to be Randolf. They note in the report that Thomas Jefferson was out of the country half of the year; they also note that Sally only conceived when TJ was at the plantation. Suspicious? No...because the plantation was locked down when TJ was out of town and there were no visitors. So Randolf only screwed Sally when TJ was in town. So these scholars are telling me [us] that if Randolf were to show up at the plantation late in the day while TJ was sunning it in Paris, that the slaves would have turned TJ's brother away. C'mon. IMO, these scholars fail the common sense test.
But it appears people want absolute proof and no absolute proof is available. Fine. I think they overlook a few things.
There is no DNA sample of TJ. Hence there is no absolute proof that TJ had any children whatsoever. He may have been infertile! A birth record is no proof of fatherhood. For all we know Randolf may have been the father of the children that we thought were TJs. I'm sure the descendants of Jefferson don't wish to consider that possibility. Hell, we don't even know that TJ was a legimate birth. There's been no DNA comparison of TJ to his parents. I'm sure the descendants of Jefferson don't wish to consider that possibility.
Let's suppose that the alternate theory is correct. Randolf Jefferson fathered the children of Sally Hemmings and only did so when TJ was on the plantation. Is it reasonable to assume that TJ was completely unaware of the sexual activities between Randolf and Sally. IMO, it's more plausible that TJ arranged it. 'Randolf, why don't you have yourself a brandy and then take Sally for a ride.' In other words TJ was a pimp. Doesn't that speak well of TJ.
So in the end. We don't know with certainty whether TJ was the father of Sally's children; we don't know if TJ was the father of what we thought were his children and we don't know if TJ was a legimate birth to begin with. If Randolf [or some other close kin to TJ] was the father of Hemming's children then it's as likely as anything that TJ was aware of it and either condoned it or arranged it.
Personnally, I think that TJ was the father and that's perhaps the best PR outcome for TJ. At least I could "spin it" into saying that TJ rose above the separation of blacks and whites and while TJ could not marry Sally in the cultural environment of the period, he none the less loved her dearly enough to father some children. But that would be spin.
Instead, I think the TJ would have agreed with the decision of the Monticello Association...we don't want no slaves in our real family.
My apologies in advance for having to vacate the thread again for TBD days. I really need to get back to my work. But my inbox, holds any response...Also my apologies to those people in my inbox...I just don't have the time right now.
jttmab
Jefferson Group Bars Kin Of Slave
Hemings Family Remains Unshaken
CHARLOTTESVILLE, May 5 -- A group representing Thomas Jefferson's documented descendants voted overwhelmingly today to bar the kin of slave Sally Hemings from joining the family organization, ending three years of rancorous and racially charged debate.
Members of the Monticello Association -- a group composed of more than 700 lineal descendants of Jefferson and his wife, Martha -- also rejected a proposal that they form an organization to honor the slaves and others who worked at Monticello in Jefferson's time.
"Our intent was to kill this forever so it doesn't keep coming up again," said John H. Works Jr., a former president of the Monticello Association and one of the key lobbyists against the Hemings descendants' inclusion. "This should do it."
The 74 to 6 vote against changing the association's membership criteria marked a long-awaited climax to the drama. The controversy has roiled the group since 1998, when a DNA analysis showed a link between a male line of the Jefferson family and some descendants of Hemings.
The genetic testing combined with historical evidence led many scholars, including those who run Jefferson's Monticello plantation, to conclude that the nation's third president probably fathered one if not all of Hemings's offspring. Critics of the testing argue that the science does not prove that Jefferson was responsible, and they point to his brother Randolph as the most likely father of Hemings's children.
The Monticello Association resisted taking a formal position until now, choosing instead to conduct its own review.
Hemings's descendants said they were prepared for rejection and remain confident in their belief that they are Jefferson's kin.
"We're not hurt by this," said Shay Banks-Young, a descendant of Hemings's son Madison. "This doesn't remove us from Thomas Jefferson's family. They can't do anything about that. It's a done deal."
Today's gathering grew increasingly contentious as exchanges between blacks and whites devolved into shouting matches and accusations of racism, based in part on an e-mail Works sent to another member showing a picture of a black man with a zipper across his mouth.
As Hemings's descendants charged Works with racism, one woman, a defender of Works, got so outraged that she ripped the image to shreds before a television camera.
Threatened with censure by his group, Works addressed the media and later the assembled Jefferson-Hemings contingent to apologize. He called the e-mail "regrettable," saying it was sent as a "joke" to family member Lucian K. Truscott IV, who had been talking "inappropriately" to the media and faced his own censure for it.
"Was it poor judgment? Yes," Works said. "Was it appropriate? No. . . . I shouldn't have sent it, but it was not meant to be racist."
But Hemings's family took it that way. "I am personally offended and represent offense for all African Americans," said Michele Cooley-Quill, a Hemings descendant, standing face to face with Works. "This is offensive to the nation."
The tension began long before the meeting and heated up Saturday with the closed-door presentation of a committee report that was intended to convince the Monticello Association membership that Hemings's descendants do not belong in the organization unless there is more evidence.
Those who can trace their lineage to Jefferson can be buried in the Monticello graveyard. A proposal to create a separate graveyard there for descendants of Monticello slaves was killed without reaching a vote.
Hemings's descendants expressed outrage during the Saturday hearing, which had tight controls in place to keep the media from listening in. Nametags were issued, video cameras and tape recorders brought by several Hemings descendants were politely ordered off, and outsiders were barred from the hearing room.
What followed was described by participants as a two-hour verbal slugfest as Jefferson and Hemings descendants delivered passionate speeches about racism and the value of family, while testily rebuking one another.
"For [Jefferson] to have a long-standing relationship with one woman offends you because she was part black, and it scares you to pieces," challenged Mary Jefferson, an Eston Hemings descendant from California who is white. Her comments and those of other speakers at the hearing were secretly recorded by several attendees. "None of us have any interest in invading your cemetery and making any of you less white. Our only wish is to be acknowledged as lineal descendants of Thomas Jefferson and your cousins," Jefferson said.
Matthew Mackay-Smith, a Jefferson descendant, also spoke to loud applause, arguing that it would take "inventions" of history to establish that Jefferson fathered Hemings's children. Those who disagree, he said, "accept or assert that he forsook his most sacred oath and was a monstrous scoundrel. I find it curious that they wish to claim such a person as an ancestor."
Countered Truscott, an outspoken Jefferson descendant who has lobbied on the Hemings descendants' behalf: "I want to know what the monstrous behavior was. Sex with a slave? A relationship with a slave? Sex with an African American? . . . What is monstrous about what we're saying Mr. Jefferson did?"
After the hearing, the fireworks spilled into the lobby of the conference center.
"It was like lancing a boil," said Dorothy Westerinen, a descendant of Eston Hemings who traveled from Staten Island, N.Y. "People got up to speak, and all the venom just spilled out."
After today's meeting, Hemings's descendants were uncertain about attending a fifth reunion. Discussions are in the works, Banks-Young said, to have their own annual Jefferson-Hemings family get-togethers at Monticello. |
