Dear Arun thanks for your very good response this is my reply to some of your questions and I hope I will come back to Vish who made some equally good points..I hope we can reach to some kind of consensus..ggg
<And I respect you for that. But then, when you suck up to Musharraf and Bush.... Hmmm... >
Both Mush and Bush have saved my country from a major disaster. I stood up to Mush when he overthrew Shariff but post 11th Sept and in Kargil too, look at the posts of that relevant period. Now he has made the right decisions.
>Let us examine the terror in Indian culture of innate inequity of human beings that is enshrined in your beliefs. Like in your culture it is dalit, or complete lack of human equality where you condemn humanity to vagaries of caste and untouchables en- block, if Islamic extremists encourages blood shed of innocents you condone living human beings rejection to lowest of levels of living as a mater of honour both equally detestable.>
< How can you equate the two? Are you telling me that the whole world is egalitarian and only India has class differences? >
India’s caste system is such that it is the only culture in the entire world that continues to relegate human beings to the lowest rung of society. In the West the concept of individual rights and responsibilities has made class systems and archaic remnant of the past and in Islamic civilisation while there is difference in how a believer and a non-believer are treated, the latter can always overcome his discrimination by converting. That recourse does not exist in Indian society because by virtues of one’s birth, their social status has been set for life. Hardly a conducive environment for a meritocratic democracy! I hate the system that collars a human being as untouchable on his birth, race issue and any other issue is no equivalent.
>When America attacks Al-Qaeeda, depraved terrorists are the targets, however in the case of India it castigates an entire nation, Pakistan in this case, because of the actions of fringe elements in the nation.>
Remember Kargil in 1999. The depraved terrorists were fully supported by Pakistani military. And who was the Pakistani General in charge?
And what of the half a million Indian soldiers in the Vale of Kashmir who continue to subjugate the inhabitants, despite the clear and resounding will of the latter to free itself of India.
<How many people of Indian origin on this or other threads have criticized the Pakistani society? The main criticism has always been against the Pakistani military. And who is providing blindfolded support to India's decaying society? And how do you judge India's society when no Indian is judging the Pakistani society. And India is just too complex to be classified in simple terms as a "decaying society". >
First of all I condemn and I am on record here to write against Mush adventure in Kargil, it was bad and destroyed a good chance to build great relationship with India. However, the reality is that they guy has changed, in my opinion he is sincere to bring peace now. And lets give this guy a chance to harness the extremists. That is in my opinion our best bet.
Obviously you have misconstrued my statements when India rattle its sabre towards Pakistani government, because of domestic terrorism, it marginalizes the Pakistani moderates and inadvertently cultivates the fringe elements. Jenin or Kandahar were not cities that were protected by nukes, so your desire of hot pursuits have to be co-ordinated with our very moderate dictatorship. You will not be able to get in and out in a short protracted war, for taking us out you need a longer war that will in my opinion destroy any chance of co-existance. So lets try to avoid a war that will make matters worst.
We need to get rid of extremists but you need to have some patience and you need to make a distinction between us as a ‘nation’ and them as a fringe marginal constituency that wants to hijack our mutual peace.
India is decaying as a society because it is unable to maintain its cohesiveness as a nation. The northeast territories writhe under Uttar Pradesh heavy hand and communal relations are fraught with tensions. India Ultimately the only artificial South Asian state drawn up by the British is India and it is of particular amusement to me when pundits decry Pakistan as a “failed state”.
<Nobody is denying that India does not have its own share of fanatics. And really, and how about your fanatics who took over Afghanistan. Now please don't blame that on India. What was the historical significance there? And Kashmir. It is too long a subject to discuss right now. >
Come on was Ghaznavi or Ghauri the luteras fro Afghanistan were Pakistanis? Don’t talk of Afghanistan it has historically being the hotbed of future rulers of India from Fraghnaneh to Kabul, warlord after warlord rode through the plains of Jhelum and entered Panipat to conquer ‘Delhi’ time and again. The mad rush of war and extremism is part of the Afghan society to blame it all on Pakistan is a historically lousy argument. Forget about medieval history lets look at the contemporary history of Taraki AND Najibullah THE 1977 coup ring leaders who were the Russian touts eagerly welcomed by India and recognised as legitimate rulers, they were the cause of the disaster and Talbenisation of Afghanistan. Don’t forget when we were fighting USSR occupation you were in the laps of Mr. Brezhnev sucking up to him, we suck up to a democratic leaders from 1947 you were a Russian satellite state all your existence.
Talebin was an indigenous outgrowth of the historically primitive conditions of Afghani society and whilst I wholeheartedly condemn Pakistan’s role in fostering the organisation, need I remind you that Afghan parties were a pawn for every regional power in Asia. Dostum and many of the big warlords are /were great friends of India will you deny that? The whole ‘human’ loving Northern Alliance is your greatest ally? Although you don’t share a common border or religion with Afghans rather Afghans as I call them were plunderers of India for centuries ask the marks on Somnath, you make no mistake in not welcoming any one who has an axe to grind against Pakistan. Neither Masood nor Dostum had greatest of the credentials of democracy but political reality dictated your actions, nations have their own interests far more important than right or wrong. Pakistan facing your 1.2 million armed man needed to have a deeper defence it was thought by the Pakistani strategists that what’s better than some radicals who do not disturb us.
Talebin until 11th sept may have been stupidly enough of some interest but when they threatened our stability we deserted them. History hates short cuts and lets not make poor arguments that defy logic. You have an objection that why Pakistanis slept in bed with Talebin whereas you have been in bed with Dostum not in any way a Noble prize winner of human love or embodiment of great human virtue of democracy, the only reason you liked this butcher was that he hated Pakistan and anyone who is Pakistan enemy is your natural ally.
Ultimately if one were to strip away the platitudes and sound bites about Kashmir only one-fact remains; it is a land reeling from an occupation. Hopefully a solution will be found but before India claims the moral high ground one must remember that no democratic nation, in this day and age, can annex a territory, unlawfully and against the will of the indigenous inhabitants, and continue to hold on to for more than half a century. |
