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Pastimes : THE SLIGHTLY MODERATED BOXING RING
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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (20204)8/27/2002 3:38:34 PM
From: one_less  Read Replies (2) of 21057
 
"How do you explain that if they were destroyed when those flags were burned?

There is an obvious disconnect in logic here on your part. You can burn all the red, white, and blue one's and put up a green one with a dove in the center if you want. You can print the constitution in gold plates but allow a charismatic president to dismantle the justice system if you want. The supreme court can make idiotic rulings about separate but equal races and completely lose credibility. A powerful and elite group of citizens can sieze control of our nation and begin dictating their own agenda. There are other nations with good constitutions where this has in fact happened.

I presented to you an argument for America "the idea" based on its guiding principles which are only evident in its symbols (the constitution, flag, etc). I challenged you to justify an America "the people and realestate". These are two distinct views of America. You can also look at them as one geopolitical entity. Throughout our history people have offered life and limb to defend "the idea."

People also fight to protect property and the lives of "their" people. This is a good thing but not necessarily American, it is simply a fact of the human condition and has taken place throughout history in all parts of the world.

Our country has been violently attacked many times and we have prevailed in defending our borders. We were not destroyed we were in fact made stronger and more resolute in our cause.

"You have not destroyed that when you burn a flag. In fact you have reinforced it because people get pissed and are even more determined to defend it."

Similarly when we determine to defend "it" the idea of America, we become strong. The symbology of America define the idea of America. The flag and the constitution with the bill of rights is as deserving of our defense as any property or persons living on the land within our borders. In fact more so since there are persons living on the land that do not deserve our defense. The idea is deserving of our defense partly because it represents the lives of persons who have willingly made the ultimate sacrifice to see it stand and to whom we are obligated, partly because we believe in the underlying principles, and partly because we owe an allegiance to it. You can proclaim the ideas nothing but symbolic scraps of paper and cloth and in so doing dismiss their defense. It would not be the first bloodless war. Is it one you want to lose?

If it is worth defending then stand up and declare it so. The Flag and the Constitution are symbols of what we stand for. To advocate the destruction of either is to advocate an over throw of the idea....Treason.
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