>> I can easily agree to that. This not where the USA is today though, and it is not the aspect of the USA's economic problems imho. <<
with all due respect, i think the hollowing out of our manufacturing base is not only one of the chief aspects of america's economic problems, but many of our social problems as well.
>> The USA economy is the biggest in the world. It's strong multinational companies, along with it's financed politicians, and it's financial institutions have a strangle hold on other economies of the world <<
how do you suppose these multinationals achieved this stranglehold over the global economy? by lessening government interference and regulation of global commerce. how do national governments seek to regulate their respective economies in regards to global capitalism? through protective trade barriers. by advocating free trade which lowers these barriers, a free trader is helping corporate transnationals and multinationals consolidate their grip on global capitalism.
>> Other countries are requested to "open up" their markets to "free enterprise", or suffer the consequences of falling out of favor with the guys who pull all the strings <<
i can agree with this statement.
>> On top of that, I hear your squealing about how unfair Americans are treated, and that protective trade barriers are needed for your "infant manufacturing industry" :-) <<
i never suggested the manufacturing industry in the united states is "infant". i merely brought up the point of protecting infant industry a couple of hundred years ago as a retort to your hypothetical about the u.s. remaining an agrarian nation. i answered a hypothetical extrapolation with facts that were relevant to the time.
we face a different situation today. after a half century of protection following the civil war the united states ascended to become the undisputed dominant manufacturing powerhouse in the world. that lasted until around the second world war and has declined steadily ever since. that decline has greatly accelerated in recent years.
around the time of the great depression the united states produced 42% of the world's manufactures. by the early seventies that had dropped by more than half to 20%. in 1965 31% of americans held manufacturing or equivalent jobs. it is currently down to about 12%.
more americans work in government than in manufacturing. manufacturing in america has been left to wither and die. i believe that this trend is harmful to our economy and social construct and the exact same sort of protective measures taken to protect infant industry from britain would be equally useful in reviving our manufacturing base.
>> Maybe I would change my view entirely if you proposed some system of tariffs for the world where we would see problems fixed rather then exacerbate them <<
it has become quite apparent where our differences lie. you are clearly a globalist who believes in universal human rights. you believe that you have as much obligation to your fellow citizens of the world as you do to your own countrymen. i do not share this idealistic view. i believe in the traditional mode of thinking which says that men will die for the ashes of their fathers and the temples of their gods. i don't believe in the utopian notion that men will give allegiance to a new world order, as noble as that sounds.
"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife."--Theodore Roosevelt
you see you want me to agree to a system whereby i place other countries on an equal standing with my own country--america. i believe that man has a natural prejudice for his own kind, his own people, his own country, and that these liberal attempts to repress this natural prejudice will ultimately fail.
so when you propose to me a system to make tariffs equal throughout the world, i would tell you that egalitarianism is a noble ideal, but it will never be achieved. people are not equal. nations and cultures are made of people and therefore are not equal either. so why would i want to advocate a system where people who have natural prejudices against my people, my country, in favor of their own, have any say in how my people govern their own affairs.
that is what liberal free traders are asking democratic nationalists such as myself to accept when they advocate global trade organizations and global bodies like the united nations where the united states is but one vote out of many, and the many don't share the same ideals, culture, traditions and history as my people.
>> Trouble is you only take a pro USA stance <<
"...But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind." --Benjamin Franklin
>> which means you turn a blind eye to actions by the USA (the most powerful nation on the planet) that harms other countries but benefits it's citizens <<
i happen to believe that many of the policies of my government are detrimental to americans as well as the rest of the world. i believe that americans can look out for themselves without taking advantages of others. in fact i believe that not oppressing other peoples will harbor less hostility and resentment towards americans thereby benefiting all people. as it turns out, i believe US trade policies are detrimental both to americans and the rest of the world, and benefit only a few multinational corporations and cultural elites.
>> This attitude is most irresponsible by citizens of such a powerful nation imho. <<
i don't consider myself to be one of these citizens. i consider many of the free traders (traitors) to be the irresponsible ones. for their own selfish enrichment they seek to globally deregulate global trade so they can exploit the cheapest labor to be found in the world. i think the rationalization argument which says that by pursuing free trade america is providing poor countries with jobs and a better life is utter nonsense. that is attempted justification of exploitation.
>> A more responsible attitude would also build a better America <<
absolutely. a more responsible attitude in america would suggest that greedy corporate multinational titans like phil knight wouldn't become billionaires at the expense of abandoning american workers in search of 25 cent an hour child labor in indonesia. slapping a stiff tariff on shoe imports would solve that in a hurry. raise the tariff high enough and americans will be encouraged to purchase shoes made in america under labor conditions which are subject to reasonable guidelines.
>> Your education system and infrastructure needs more finance then it presently gets <<
oh my. we spend ten times as much money as we used to spend on education and yet children still end up ignorant. it has NOTHING to do with spending more money. it has everything to do with effects of liberalism. lower standards, a lack of morality and discipline in the school system, and something else i will tell you is the TRUTH but which is politically incorrect to point out these days. the united states lets in so many third-world immigrants that we spend a huge chunk of our money teaching them all how to speak english while also providing other health needs. stupid liberals waste more time teaching kids about how to be queer and muslim than they do about AMERICAN history. that is a shame. even our supposedly "conservative" president bush advocates "english-plus".
what a joke. if you haven't guessed by now, i find myself partial to much of what theodore roosevelt stood for. here is something else he said which i totally agree with. notice how pathetically feeble and liberal we have become in the last century when our president says english-plus is his policy.
"Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country." --Theodore Roosevelt
>> But the loss of a sense of a civic responsibility in both the domestic and international scene is a severe loss to America imho. <<
ahh, you were referring to teaching civics. we don't need more money for that. we just need to spend the hour those filthy liberals spend teaching our children to accept that heather has two mommies better things like american history. of course liberals want to hide from american history. they want to revise history or pretend it didn't happen. they will spend more time teaching propaganda about the holocaust or the so-called civil rights movement than they will spend teaching about our forefathers who fought to give them the kind of freedom they so readily abuse.
>> I lived in the USA, so I know. I was dragged from that place I love so much only because my kids get a much better education here in Scotland. If you don't believe me perhaps you would like to help me with my 17 yrs old math homework this evening. When she gets stuck I am supposed to help. It involves second order differential equations, and I'm lost on some of the questions. <<
surely you understand that forced integration and massive immigration means we must drag down the brighter students to the lower level of the dimmer ones. it's all about egalitarianism in america, which you can thank the liberals for.
>> I would argue that the USA (the most powerful economy on the planet) resorting to unilateral actions and tariffs will send the world into recession and damage the USA's economy further <<
i hate to break it to you, but free trade got us into the economic morass we face, so i don't see why you think free trade will somehow get us out of it and protection will hurt. i've got news for you. the world economy is going nowhere fast no matter what we do. it will take a great deal of time to fix the mess we are in. i don't see why bubbleheads on tv expect some quick fix, like a cut in interest rates or a tax cut or more free trade will magically fix the problem. the problem is systemic, and only time and a move back to economic nationalism will correct the imbalances.
>> Yes, you have not convinced me otherwise. <<
that is because i have yet to convince you that free trade is an addictive poison like heroin. feels good for a while but wrecks everything in the end. you say that moving to protectionism will only cause more damage and hurt us worse. that is like the heroin addict who tries to quit but feels so awful that he is convinced he must keep shooting to feel normal. the withdrawal to a reasonable amount of protection will make us feel awful for a while only because we are in the throes of free trade addiction. after the withdrawal symptoms wear off we can emerge healthy and rejuvenated.
>> I don't think you should have played the religious card so strongly though <<
heh, i think i played the race card, not the religion card. like many other people i have encountered on si, you equate jews with religion. i don't. i consider jews to be a distinct race. although i will admit that i have problems with the religion as well.
>> Let the facts speck for themselves. It's not as if Jews have a "corner" on crime <<
of course not. the problem is not that only jews commit crimes and misdeeds (all races do). the problem is the hypocrisy within jewish supremacism which holds jews to a different standard than non-jews. jews believe in one standard for themselves and a different standard for the rest of the world. this chauvinism has historically resulted in a failure of jews to assimilate within the society of their host nation. this failure to assimilate has fueled resentment throughout the ages, and can account for the numerous expulsions and pogroms conducted against jews.
i see the same historical pattern has taken shape in america as well. jews failing to assimilate properly into american society. all these jewish crooks on wall st. are a perfect example of this.
now it would seem to me that there are only two possible solutions to the dilemma of the jewish question.
1) jews must recognize that they must alter their behavior and learn to assimilate full into society as americans
or
2) they must form their own society elsewhere. of course this has already been proposed--zionism. so far zionism has proven to be a disaster if you ask me.
therefore, since jews are not all heading to israel and many of them are quite comfortable existing within american society, patriotic americans have not only a right but a duty to demand that they assimilate as loyal americans. unfortunately in many cases this has not proven to be the case. before a just and reasonable solution can be decided upon, americans need to be informed of all the facts. if many powerful jews had it their way, americans would be kept ignorant of the facts and would be paralyzed from action. i consider it my duty as an american patriot to do my best to inform my fellow citizens of the facts so we can come to a satisfactory solution to the jewish question.
>> There are bad guys and good guys in any walk of life. <<
i sense you are offering the standard liberal argument of this day and age. don't categorize groups of people. don't hold groups responsible for the actions of individuals. hold only individuals to account. let me explain the flaws to this way of thinking. for one thing it flies in the fase of common sense and reason. categorizing or profiling is a natural part of life. it is a natural consequence of relating past experiences in an effort to estimate future probabilities. it is done ALL THE TIME.
you want proof? turn on your tv. listen to all the talking heads on tv saying "radical muslims", "muslim fundamentalists" "arab terrorists". not all terrorists are muslim or arab. some are christian, some are jewish. some are white, some are black. yet few seem to mind all the profiling we experience in our daily life.
do you realize that insurance companies profile people all the time? let's take auto insurance. teenagers are charged much higher rates because statistics show they have a tendency toward more risky driving behavior and a higher incidence of accidents. now this is group profiling is it not? not all teenagers drive like maniacs. not all teenagers get in accidents. yet only if they offer some sort of proof that they are more responsible (like good grades) do they get a break on car insurance rates. otherwise they pay significantly higher rates than older adults through no fault of their own.
let's move on to the catholic church. statistics will show that only a small percentage of catholic priests molest children, perhaps the same percentage as found within the rest of society or even less. but that doesn't stop the media from sensationalizing the catholic church as full of rampant abuse because of a very small percentage of evil men.
i could go on with numerous other examples where profiling is perfectly acceptable and tolerated within society. oftentimes it's ok to profile white, heterosexual men, it's ok to profile muslim or arab terrorists, it's ok to profile christians and catholics, it's ok to profile teenagers, it's ok to profile this group and that group, but the one group that when profiled raises eyebrows and evokes a visceral reaction in people is of course--jews.
why do you think this might be? i have thought much about and spent some time researching the question. the conclusion i have found is that americans have been trained to instinctively experience a knee-jerk sympathy for jews when presented with any criticism of them. this is quite understandable considering the total inculcation americans have received regarding the holocaust. americans have been trained in schools and by movies, books, television, and popular legend to believe that jews have always been historically mistreated by gentiles through no fault of their own and therefore deserve special consideration and protection.
of course i had to get to the bottom of why this one group gets all sorts of sympathy and special consideration from americans and some other western countries. after some research it became quite clear. this powerful group of people control the western media, hollywood, academia, and government. they use this domination of nearly every outlet of popular mainstream thought to shape and mold the views of americans.
as lord acton said, "power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." well this powerful stranglehold jews hold over western society has corrupted them absolutely and hence they use this power they hold over americans to place jews in a positive light in the minds of americans, while placing any group who dare opposes them into a negative light.
this is the story of jewish supremacism in america, and the preponderance of jewish crooks on wall st. are partially a reflection of that. they are a particularly vile group of crooks who have a greater loyalty to israel than they do america. |
