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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group
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To: GST who wrote (47718)9/29/2002 12:06:33 AM
From: D. Long  Read Replies (2) of 281500
 
This is fundamental to the UN. If this condition is not met, then the there is no self-defense.

There is no such condition. I just quoted the relevant self-defense clause in the UN Charter to JohnM yesterday. The traditions of international relations have long included conditions considered to be Acts of War that involved NO "imminent" threat, as has been recently defined at least. If we want to consider the use of force in self-defense to be only valid when confronting "imminent threats" then the history of the United States, let alone the rest of the world, is chock full of wrongful wars. John considers "imminent threat" to be a threat to the continental United States, if I understand him correctly. But under that standard, only two wars were justified as being "imminent threats" - the Mexican War and the Civil War, because they were the only wars that threatened the territorial integrity of the continental United States. Not even the War of 1812 would suffice since the British didn't threaten the continental United States until after we declared war. So unless you decide to define "imminent threat" a little closer to the much broader acceptance of what constitutes "self defense" as enshrined in such Acts of War as crimes on the high sea and violation of the person of diplomatic staff, you're really just making this up.

I apologize for being so curt yesterday, I was a bit steamed at other matters.

Derek
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